Polished edge

[Joel Fiorentini]

Great post Phil. Would you recommend the 5k/10k Choseras after the micro fine ceramics?

Well..
Here I go again. We had a long topic where we discussed what a mirro bevel really is. It seems that many people call many stages of reflectivity a mirror. If sharpening myself I consider a mirror to be a mirror… an edge just as reflective as my bathroom mirror, and with less than 5% coverage with visible scratches.

You simply can’t easily get that with the progression that you mention. Actually, I don’t think it is possible at all without spending hours on the strops. Recently I tried on some D2, AUS 8A and S30V. I used the diamonds through 1000, then the 1200/1600 ceramics, then coarse and fine microfine ceramics, then 6/3 and 1/0.5 micron paste/spray respectively. What can I say, the bevel was somewhat reflective, but with lots of visible fine scratches. For the application the knives will be used for… it was fine.. and they were very sharp.

The ceramics leave what I would call a semi reflective (shiny, but no mirror) edge. Even after 100 strokes each side with all four ceramic grits, there were lots of visible scratches. Now in this way they are more similar to the Shapton stones. They just don’t supply much in the way of polishing ability at all. You can make the bevel brighter with the strops, but you would need hours of stropping time to get rid of the visible scratches. If you want a real mirror (in my definition) you need some stones that polish as well as abrade. Even the 1000 grit Chosera stones will give you a much more mirror like bevel than the sub-micron ceramics. I have 5K and 15K Shaptons that I will not use when trying for a perfect mirror, because, although very precise, like the Ceramics, they leave… perfectly aligned and very precise Scratches! A great edge for cutting things…but scratchy…
BTW I test by holding a bright flashlight almost parallel to the edge. By cahnging the angle it is easy to see both the amount of reflectivity and the damn scratches. It really shows scratches that you may not see in normal light and looking at the bevel perpindicularly.

I can tell you that getting to my definition of a mirror edge is time consuming. I use 13 different grits of stones and eight different grits on strops from 3K up I am doing 150 strokes…or more per side… 3 to 4 hours… and often I am not really satisfied with the results.. I can still see some scratches (AAARG). However, when I have compared these edges with some of the stuff my local sharpening buddies call a mirror edge… they quite amazed at the difference. There is at least an order of magnitude more reflectivity and scratch removal.

So, it is all about what you want. This whole perfect mirror scratch free thing is all about OCD and just saying…I can do it. It sure does not make the knife orders of magnitude sharper… BUT, it is an eye catcher and has gotten me quite a few sharpening jobs 🙂

Phil

[cbwx34]

If you want a real mirror (in my definition) you need some stones that polish as well as abrade.

Probably the only thing you needed to type. 😉 Ok, not really, it’s a good post, and has a lot of good info. But I think this is the key, if you’re looking for a “mirror polish”, especially to your (Phil’s) standard… a waterstone… in particular one that creates a bit of mud, will lead to a better polish. The Chosera’s are a good candidate for this. 2nd option would be to finish with leather, but it’ll take longer. Finishing with ceramics, no matter how fine, will leave scratching that will be detectable under the right conditions.

Or, just check ’em on a cloudy day. 👿

[Phil Pasteur]

Great post Phil. Would you recommend the 5k/10k Choseras after the micro fine ceramics?

I have been… without going into maniacal sharpening mode.. (super OCD)..
Using the 2k/3K then the 5K/10K stones after the 4 ceramic progresion.
I have not yet tried what Curtis and others have suggested… use the Coarse microfine ceramic, before the 1200, then 1600 and the fine microfine. That could change things…

Phil

Curtis… if I only wrote two lines… I would have been bored for the rest of the time…
:S

[cbwx34]

Curtis… if I only wrote two lines… I would have been bored for the rest of the time…
:S

😆 😆

It was a good post… don’t want to take away from that… just thought that was the key point.

🙂

[Daniel Saucier]

Nick,

Nobody is bent here. Hopefully you’re not. I appreciate the info you’ve posted. Don’t get your feathers ruffled, seems they might be. Just pointing out inconsistencies that are evident.

Phil, I wish I had the time for the OCD progression you have for that polished edge, must be nice. Good post, thank you. I have 2 little ones that make sure I don’t have that time.

Sauce

[Phil Pasteur]

Sauce,

Sometimes that total sharpening time is spread over several days. I just move the WEPS with the knife mounted. I usually can’t handle pushing paddles for 3 or four hours straight..:ohmy:

to somewhere safe and continue when I have time to get back to it.
I have enough knives around that I won’t miss the one in the weps for a few days. If it is a customer’s knife… I let them know up front that it could be a week. Folks willing to pay for that kind of edge normally understand that you can’t rush it.

So maybe you sharpen for 20 minutes one day, then get back to it and do it for another 20 minutes when next you have time to breathe..
How old are the kids?

Seems like Nick does get his feathers ruffled easily. I might point out that we try to be friends helping each ohter out around here. Usually friends do not need to shout at each other. Shouting is the accepted interpretation of typing in all caps… quite unneccessary. All we can do is share our ideas and opinions. The reader can do with those what they want. I for one am sure not here to try to force my ideas on anyone, nor make them abandon their personal biases… whether right or wrong in my frame of reference.

Phil

[Nicholas Angeja]

I do apologize sincerely, I don’t mean to come off shouting or being aggressive that was not my intention. My feathers get all ruffled pretty quickly when i’m challenged and its something I need to work on. I work as a chef, and if my career says anything about me its that I need to be strong, confident, and never down. I will tone it done and avoid getting all bent out of shape.

Sorry guys

[Nicholas Angeja]

I do apologize sincerely, I don’t mean to come off shouting or being aggressive that was not my intention. My feathers get all ruffled pretty quickly when i’m challenged and its something I need to work on. I work as a chef, and if my career says anything about me its that I need to be strong, confident, and never down. I will tone it done and avoid getting all bent out of shape.

Sorry guys

[Phil Pasteur]

I apologize If I came off as challenging you. Not my intent. I hold some pretty strong opinions myself. All of them are based on my perceptions and experiences. Often they don’t fit with what others “know”… I just figured out a long time ago that some things are worth getting upset about and others aren’t..
Though Curtis can tell you I haven’t learned that lesson all that well…
🙁

However, maybe more important, know your audience…
😆

I am sure it is all good going forward.
THX for the reply !!

Phil

I do apologize sincerely, I don’t mean to come off shouting or being aggressive that was not my intention. My feathers get all ruffled pretty quickly when i’m challenged and its something I need to work on. I work as a chef, and if my career says anything about me its that I need to be strong, confident, and never down. I will tone it done and avoid getting all bent out of shape.

Sorry guys

[Daniel Saucier]

No worries Nick………..glad we can come to this forum and talk and learn about knives and sharpening, fun stuff. 🙂

Phil, kids are 5 and 4, 15 months apart. Not quite Irish twins, but close. Keep you busy boy :whistle:

The knife I started this post out with is a Spyderco Delica 4 ffg with vg10 steel. I notice it’s quite a bit harder than the JA Henkel kitchen knives and cheap folders I previously sharpened. Gonna load it back in the WE and complete more strokes with each grit, see if that helps with the polish. I saw a video by “M0difiedz” on youtube where he sharpened a Kershaw Skyline. Progressed up through ceramics, then used 2500 grit paper and that seemed to really eliminate some of the haze left after the ceramics. Gonna buy some 2000 and 2500 grit today and see what it produces, then strop.

Sauce

[Daniel Saucier]

Followed up the ceramics with 2000 grit paper taped on to the ceramics. This really helped with the polish. 2500 grit was not available at the local woodworking store, will order it online, but I think that will help even more. Notice my stones are smoothing out quite a bit now too………………..

Sauce

[Author]

Posts