Micro fine ceramic stone issues

[David]

I’ve been using my wicked edge for at least 2 years, and really like the edge I’m able to get on knives. Recently I received the Micro Fine Ceramic Stones pack as a gift, and I’m not really liking the results. When I move from the 1200 to 1600 super fine ceramic stones to the micro fine ceramic stones it is like I’m scratching up what I’ve already done. They seem more coarse. I have lapped the micro fine stones and it hasn’t seemed to help.

Any suggestions?

[DARRELL ALLEN]

🙁 sorry to hear the trouble your having David. I bought the Super Fine ceramics as a go between from the 1000 diamonds to the Micro Fine ceramics, and I use them in that progression and have not lapped mine ( other than against themselves ) but I’ve had no issues with them…….except that on the Micro Fines once, the stones came loose from the paddles and fell off…………..which I then used medium thick CA glue to re-adhere them which worked out great.

Here are a few pics of one I recently finished ( a re-sharpen or touch up if you will ) starting at the 600 grit diamonds going through both sets of the ceramics, then finally the balsa and leather strops. It came out with a REALLY nice mirrored edge, and very sharp.

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[cbwx34]

I’ve been using my wicked edge for at least 2 years, and really like the edge I’m able to get on knives. Recently I received the Micro Fine Ceramic Stones pack as a gift, and I’m not really liking the results. When I move from the 1200 to 1600 super fine ceramic stones to the micro fine ceramic stones it is like I’m scratching up what I’ve already done. They seem more coarse. I have lapped the micro fine stones and it hasn’t seemed to help.

Any suggestions?

Welcome to the forum.

What did you lap the stones with? Because the stone are hard, you can change the results the stone produce with what you lap them with… so if you lap with a coarse stone, they’ll leave a more coarse finish. (Unlike a waterstone, which will “return” to it’s original level, since it’s softer). So you might try lapping them with the finest stone you have… then rubbing them together a bit, to see if that helps.

I found I got better results using the stones in this order…. MicroFine Coarse –> 1200 —> 1600 –> MicroFine Fine. Again, you can change this with what you lap them with.

[Ken Buzbee]

I found I got better results using the stones in this order…. MicroFine Coarse –> 1200 —> 1600 –> MicroFine Fine.

I haven’t lapped mine but this is the progression I use with great results, as well.

Ken

[David]

I really appreciate your answers.

I guess I’m just not understanding the benefit of these Micro fine ceramic stones? I was already getting a mirror finish using 800/1000 then the 1200/1600 super fine ceramic. Then I would finish up with balsa wood and then leather. Beautiful finish. Now I tried to add the micro fine ceramics before the balsa wood, and they scratch up what I’ve already achieved.

I only lapped the micro fine ceramics against themselves.

So you are all recommending that I use the micro fine between the 1200 and 1600, then?

[Leo Barr]

Darrell

What I can see of this knife it looks pretty awesome what does the rest of it look like and what is it?

[Lukas Pop]

I lapped micro fine ceramic againts diamonds, and it takes a lot of effort. I can’t tell if is it better to use coarse microfine before or after superfine. Now I usually do progression 1000 diamonds -> coarse microfine -> fine microfine -> strops. I think that polish is quite similar as with superfines, but I can produce hair whittling edges more consistently than with superfines. So maybe try lapping microfines with diamonds, but you can’t expect significant improvement in polish in comparison with superfines. For beautiful mirror polish are excellent Choseras, I haven’t personal experience, but there are general agreement on this forum.

[Phil Pasteur]

Davidmw wrote:

I guess I’m just not understanding the benefit of these Micro fine ceramic stones?

The Microfine “Fine” stones are definitely finer than either of the Superfine ceramics.
The problem comes in with un-lapped Microfine coarse stones. The are generally, without lapping on a diamond plate, more coarse than the 1600 ceramic. If you use it after the 1600, then it is tough to remove its scratches with the fine Microfine.

One other thing to keep in mind is, getting a blade sharp has little to do with having a scratch free bevel. Lot of people swear by the Shapton Pro stones. I think that they leave a very scratchy bevel (until the 30 K stone, perhaps), but they leave very nice uniform scratches and make things very sharp.

Lots of people finish with 400 to 600 grit stones (bench stones, Edge Pro stones) and feel that gives them the best edge for their purposes. This obviously will not leave a very reflective bevel.

Lots of folks here stop with the 1000 grit diamonds because they like that edge, though the bevel is not very reflective at that grit. The blade is plenty sharp for the intended use, however.

I can’t answer for the design philosophy, or if the Microfine stones were ever really intended to be a series with the Superfine ceramics..but used as others here have suggested, the four ceramic stone series does work out pretty well.

BTW
I could see Clay getting the Microfine set produced to make things sharp… because they do exactly that. I guess that would be enough of a benefit for many people. Of course, depending on expectations for specific outcomes.

[Ken Buzbee]

So you are all recommending that I use the micro fine between the 1200 and 1600, then?

No, the other way:

MicroFine Coarse –> 1200 —> 1600 –> MicroFine Fine.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Darrell

What I can see of this knife it looks pretty awesome what does the rest of it look like and what is it?

A Kershaw Zing. 🙂

[Phil Pasteur]

I can make a 1200 grit edge look like a mirror with the right angle and lighting.. in a photograph..
not in person!

There are no real “mirror” bevels when using under 5K to at least 10K for polishing.. THEN stropping.

Anyone saying they have a “mirror” edge with anything less, is using a definition that does not match mine (nor that of industry, or aerospace metrology). If it is not as bright, and reflective as a bathroom mirror, and has more than 5% of the bevel containing visible scratches, NOT using magnification, I don’t consider it a mirror bevel/edge !!

Reflective, sure! Pretty, absolutely. Photogenic… I can make it that.

A “mirror” edge..
Nope!

Check this thread:
http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=topic&catid=6&id=892&limitstart=0&Itemid=271

Back to the ceramics,

Ken said:

No, the other way:
Curtis said:
MicroFine Coarse –> 1200 —> 1600 –> MicroFine Fine.

That having been said… there is no “NO” when sharpening..
It depends is a better answer.

I have used… when I use the ceramics, 1200, MF coarse, 1600, and MF fine… and have been real happy with the results..

I also have “really” lapped the stones with the DMT XXC, C, and XF diamonds plates…
This will make a big difference for sure. I think that Curtis reported lapping his ceramic stones… using a different set of plates.

The bottom line is, try it and see what you think. That is the ONLY way that you will know what works for *YOU*..

The MicroFine Ceramic stones have a place in a progression… I know that from using them. Where they fit in *your* progression… you need to figure out for yourself. Experimentation and the ability to precisely repeat sharpening procedures to define the differences are the strong suite of the WEPS. Take advantage of that, you will amaze yourself with what you learn..
🙂

Also, maybe think about whether you are striving to make a blade real sharp, or real pretty, or both.. and what is the priority. I can make a knife real sharp, in 15 minutes. I can make it REAL pretty (what I consider a mirror bevel) and about as sharp, in three to four hours or so (using 20+ different grits where the stones and strops, with abrasives, cost way more than the knives…way more).

I suggest thinking about it and setting your priorities to match your needs…

:woohoo:

[Ken Buzbee]

Ken said:

No, the other way:
Curtis said:

MicroFine Coarse –> 1200 —> 1600 –> MicroFine Fine.

[/quote]

That having been said… there is no “NO” when sharpening..
It depends is a better answer.[/quote]

My “no” was not ‘you can’t do that’ or even ‘you shouldn’t do that’ it was ‘no, that’s not what I said’ (or what Curtis said 😉 ) So there IS a “no” in sharpening, when it’s clarifying what you said 😉

THAT said, of course, you are right, Phil. Any sharpening strategy or technique that works for you is fine. Even if not one single other person on the planet would ever recommend it. If someone want to know what I do, I’ll tell them. Whether they want to try that or not is strictly up to them.

Ken

[cbwx34]

Ran across the thread on Lapping the MicroFine Ceramics, thought it might have some relevant info.

[Phil Pasteur]

THAT said, of course, you are right, Phil. Any sharpening strategy or technique that works for you is fine. Even if not one single other person on the planet would ever recommend it. If someone want to know what I do, I’ll tell them. Whether they want to try that or not is strictly up to them.

Ken

Amen!!

Text communications are so sadly limiting AND limited!!
😛

[Mark76]

II also have “really” lapped the stones with the DMT XXC, C, and XF diamonds plates…
This will make a big difference for sure. I think that Curtis reported lapping his ceramic stones… using a different set of plates.

Ran across the thread on Lapping the MicroFine Ceramics, thought it might have some relevant info.

Good points, guys. I still have to get a DMT XF plate…

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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