Life after PP1

[Jamey Howard]

Looking for some advice on my next purchase please.

Background: Five months ago I bought PP1 plus an angle cube and the 50/80 stones. Since then I’ve added the riser block and the new standard arms (not the upgraded arms, just the standard ones that have less play).

I’m a very happy customer and can get lovely, sharp edges on knives but because I only go up to the 1,000 grit diamonds followed by the 5/3.5 leather strops I don’t get mirror edges as standard. I bought some sandpaper up to 2500 grit and used it to do two mirror bevels (one on my Kershaw OD-1, another on my Benchmade Griptilian) and it’s given me a hankering for something shinier than the 1,000 diamonds leave.

But I can’t be arsed with using sandpaper all the time so I’m looking to buy some more toys 🙂 …However I don’t have a huge amount to spend right now, and I’m not looking to start going down the waterstones route.

So I was thinking of buying the 1200/1600 ceramics and either leather (again) or balsa strops with 1/0.5 pastes. That’s about the limit of what I have to spend right now. Realistically how much better than just stopping after the 1,000 diamonds will those ceramics be in terms of edge mirrored-ness?

[cbwx34]

There’s something else you may want to take a look at… Clay just got in, and has been testing the DMT 3m stone. Not sure how they’re going to fit in the mix yet, but he’s done a little bit of testing so it may give you an idea.

The ceramics will improve the edge both in looks and (more importantly maybe) in sharpness… no doubt. I’ve done so many combos, I can’t recall the visual results right now of going from 1000g diamond –> 1200/1600 ceramics –> to 5/3.5m leather, but you will end up with a more refined edge for sure.

Thought I’d point out the new stones… may want to see how they’re working in to the mix.

[Jamey Howard]

Thanks Curtis, I have been following that thread about the 3m diamond stone with interest and it does seem like something I’d be interested in but obviously it’s not an available, shipping product yet and this money’s burning a hole in my pocket 😉 ..>Also Clay was talking about having one of the micro-fine ceramics on the other side so it would be a natural next purchase for me after this current round. IE next time I have a bit of spare cash.

A few follow-up questions if I may, though…

1) How much of a “gap” is there between the 1k diamond stones and the 1,200 ceramic stones? Do you have to do a lot of work with the 1,200 before you can move to 1,600 or is it a natural progression from the 1k diamonds?

2) After the 1600 ceramics should you go to the 5/3.5mu strops or should you miss those out and go straight to the 1/0.5mu strops?

3) Balsa or leather after the 1600s?

Cheers
J

[DARRELL ALLEN]

Looking for some advice on my next purchase please.

I’m a very happy customer and can get lovely, sharp edges on knives but because I only go up to the 1,000 grit diamonds followed by the 5/3.5 leather strops I don’t get mirror edges as standard.

So I was thinking of buying the 1200/1600 ceramics and either leather (again) or balsa strops with 1/0.5 pastes. That’s about the limit of what I have to spend right now. Realistically how much better than just stopping after the 1,000 diamonds will those ceramics be in terms of edge mirrored-ness?

Hi Jamey, I purchased the PP 2 and have added the 1200 / 1600 ceramics and the Balsa strops 1.0 / .5 paste and am getting some really nice edges with that. I typically go to the 1000 grit diamonds, then the 1200 /1600 ceramics, then the Super Fine Ceramics, followed by the 5/3.5 leather strops, and finally the Balsa 1.0 / .5 strops. Here is one I recently finished that turned out really nice.

I do find however that once I get to 1000, then switch to the 1200/1600 ceramics………….I have a pretty reflective bevel at that point, and very sharp…….so, if your budget is limited, I would go with the 1200/1600 ceramics, and the Balsa strops ( I really like the feel of the Balsa on the blades ) and then maybe later get the Super Fine ceramics ? Just my 2 cents………………..

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[Jamey Howard]

Thanks Darrell, appreciate the info. One thing, I assume that when you say “later get the Super Fine ceramics” you actually mean Micro Fine ceramics? I’m looking at the product page for Accessory Stones and the ones called “Super Fine Ceramics” are actually the 1200/1600 combo ones. The others (1.4/0.6) are called Micro Fine on that page.

Personally I find all of the labelling (super fine, micro fine, extra fine, extra coarse, ultra coarse, etc) a bit confusing and I wish the names would just stick to grit size and medium. Keep it standard.

I’d still be interested to know if the gap from 1k diamonds to 1.2k ceramics is significant and whether that step needs more time spent on it, or whether it’s just as easy as stepping from 800 to 1k diamonds is.

[Geocyclist]

If water stones are out then the ceramics are the best bang for the buck. Sure stops are cheaper, but I really don’t see huge improvements after the 3.5 (unless water stones were used to begin with). My opinion is above 3.5u strops you don’t see a huge difference with the naked eye.

I would go with the super fine ceramics.

• They are less expensive than the micro fines
• They do work well after 1000# diamonds and lead nicely into 5/3.5 strops.
• I have heard that the coarse micro is the coarsest of the ceramics and the fine is the finest (so the micros are like #1 and #4 and the supers are like #2 and #3 in term of progression. There is much discussion of super vs. micro and I don’t claim the statement above to be true. (Disclaimer: I do not have micros).

I know you said the water stones are out. But as a water stone lover I must give a plug. I think with just a 1000 Chosera you would be vey pleased, Especially compared to the super ceramics. Especially if you want mirror edges. If you can get a set of 1000 Choseras with something other than 800 on the other side (i.e. 600 or 3k) then you get a wider spread with just a 2 stone set. That being said you won’t go wrong with ceramics and I use mine for touch ups and when for knives I don’t want to spend the time on with water stones.

[Jamey Howard]

Interesting comment about strops Geocyclist.

So would you advise me not to bother with the balsa strops at all? and stick with my leather ones? Or should I get balsa but instead of the 1/0.5 pastes I should just buy more of the 5/3.5 pastes I already have?

[Phil Pasteur]

Try a set of the 1200/1600 ceramics. Save the money on the balsa and put it away until you can add enough to it to get a set of the Chosera Stones. A set such as 1000/3000 would be an eye opener when it comes to getting a more reflective bevel.

Balsa is great stuff for stropping, but with either sprays or pastes you really can’t, in any reasonable amount of time, get the polishing effect that it seems that you want.

[Jamey Howard]

Thanks Philip but my mind’s made up about waterstones – I’m not going to go down that route.

Gonna try the 1200/1600 ceramics then, it sounds as though the edge won’t be as mirrored as I managed to get with sandpaper but it will still be better than the 1k diamonds.

Cheers all.

[DARRELL ALLEN]

Thanks Darrell, appreciate the info. One thing, I assume that when you say “later get the Super Fine ceramics” you actually mean Micro Fine ceramics? I’m looking at the product page for Accessory Stones and the ones called “Super Fine Ceramics” are actually the 1200/1600 combo ones. The others (1.4/0.6) are called Micro Fine on that page.

yes Jamey, sorry……..I did mean the ” micros “…….my bad.

I think you will be happy with your choice of the 1200/1600 Super Fine Ceramics after the 1000 diamonds……once I get done with the 1200/1600 ceramics, I already have a very nice, reflective bevel. Anything after that is just icing on the edge ? LOL

[Phil Pasteur]

Thanks Philip but my mind’s made up about waterstones – I’m not going to go down that route.

Jamey,

Any particular reason for that? Just curious. My absolute best edges and most mirror-like almost scratch free bevels have been achieved with water stones. I am sure that if you ever tried them, you would be very happy with the results.

The biggest objection seems to be the mess, but when used properly this is really a non-issue. Soaking, well 10 minutes of time, and soaking the next set while I am sharpening with the first, minimizes the impact on the time it costs.

There is the expense, but purchased over time, at least that can be made more tolerable.

Knowing that you have a WEPS, and that you are looking for more reflective bevels and the ultimate sharpness for a given blade, I can guarantee that you would love a set or two…or maybe three of the Chosera Stones. If you can get them(I think Ken Schwartz may make these up for people) with just a set of the 2K Aotoshi stones, you would be amazed how your edges would look after the 1200/1600 ceramics.

[Jamey Howard]

Any particular reason for that? Just curious. My absolute best edges and most mirror-like almost scratch free bevels have been achieved with water stones. I am sure that if you ever tried them, you would be very happy with the results.

It’s personal choice. I’m not out to get the best edges in the world, or to compare with other people, I’m happy with the sharpness I’ve been getting from PP1 but if there’s a quick way to get more of a shine on the edge then I’ll take it.

I like to just be able to sharpen things quickly and easily with minimum fuss.

[Geocyclist]

It’s personal choice. I’m not out to get the best edges in the world, or to compare with other people, I’m happy with the sharpness I’ve been getting from PP1 but if there’s a quick way to get more of a shine on the edge then I’ll take it.

You can do well with ceramics and strops. If you really want a mirror finish with no scratches to the naked eye you need Chosear’s. Period.

I like to just be able to sharpen things quickly and easily with minimum fuss.

The ceramics fit this bill very well. Two more stones after the diamonds, a little stropping (or a lot) and your done. If you don’t let the blade to get too dull you can touch up with ceramics.

I have both needs. Some knives, the high end, super steel I want a mirror polish. I have some lower end knives I don’t care so much about and I want a fast, sharp edge. (i.e. low end folders, fixed blades, and kitchen knives).

If you only want to buy “1 item” then ceramics are the best bang for the buck.

[Jamey Howard]

The ceramics just arrived! Can’t compare as I’m not at home but are they exactly the same thickness as the diamonds? I don’t need to change the angle when I transition from 1k diamonds to 1200 ceramics do I? Because I don’t have the ball-joint arms so I can’t micro-adjust angles.

[Lukas Pop]

The ceramics just arrived! Can’t compare as I’m not at home but are they exactly the same thickness as the diamonds? I don’t need to change the angle when I transition from 1k diamonds to 1200 ceramics do I? Because I don’t have the ball-joint arms so I can’t micro-adjust angles.

Hi Jamey, they are supposed to be of the same thickness. You can check this if you put diamonds and ceramics side by side on the table. I have just done it, and my 800/1000 diamonds are little thicker than my 1200/1600 ceramics, but I don’t adjust angle and it works fine.

Edit: I have just tried the angle difference, and is about 0.4°, maybe it is because I lapped my ceramics already.

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