Chosera stone maintenance

[wickededge]

13 degrees and 2000x.

35 degrees and 2000x.

Attachments:

• Textured-2000x-1.jpg
• Textured-2000x-2.jpg

-Clay

[wickededge]

The Micro-Fine ceramics are of course very different than any of the waterstones and what we learn with the Micro-Fines will likely only be part of the story with the waterstones. Several things jump out: texturing the stones yields a very clear difference in the bevel and edge. The rough texture is quite noticeable while sharpening; it’s much rougher feeling and sounding. Significantly more metal was deposited on the textured stones compared to the lapped stones. The scratch pattern created by the textured stones (when it actually reaches the edge) leaves a toothy edge compared with the lapped stones.

-Clay

[Mikedoh]

I realize that you textured and lapped the ceramics for the empirical data they produced on an edge.
Do you have any ideas on these “resurfaced” ceramics in routine sharpening? Would they be sort of a kinder, gentler diamond stone now?

Also curious as to the behavior of your 50 diamond now?

Thanks for the experimental show and tell.

[wickededge]

I realize that you textured and lapped the ceramics for the empirical data they produced on an edge.
Do you have any ideas on these “resurfaced” ceramics in routine sharpening? Would they be sort of a kinder, gentler diamond stone now?

Also curious as to the behavior of your 50 diamond now?

Thanks for the experimental show and tell.

Thanks and nice questions. I haven’t really examined my 50# stones yet but I believe just by casual observation that it is somewhat more broken in now.

As far as the ceramics, yes, they’ve become more aggressive but are still gentler than the diamond plates. Since it’s possible to create a range of textures, one could tinker around with the final surface roughness until a desired result was achieved.

-Clay

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

That was really some cool pics to look at! I really enjoyed looking at the edges and the edge of the edge 🙂

[Mark76]

Wow, amazing pictures again!

This is a pretty revealing experiment. It seems to me that it shows that on ceramic stones the texturing does matter. And not (only) the “grit size”. Finally I think I understand Sal and Coorstek. Is this a correct conclusion?

It’d be great, Clay, if you could repeat the experiment with a fine water stone. That would also give us the definitive answer whether lapping them on a coarse plate results in the same edge finish as lapping them on a fine plate.

we’ll be carrying the DMT 3 micron stones soon

Really? As Wicked Edge stones on paddles? With the same thickness as the other stock stones? That’d be awesome! I’ll order them the same day they are put on sale…

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Leo Barr]

I am waiting for my WE pro p 11 . Currently I use an Edge Pro and the stones often need flattening lapping (the finer stones get contaminated with steel and become less effective).I bought with the EP a flat round piece of glass and silicone carbide(+ water) which I use sparingly making sure that if I add any new silicone carbide onto the glass I flatten the coarse 120 grit stones first and carefully progress up to the 1200 grit as the silicone carbide wears down .
I rarely rince off the glass so there is a fair amount of stone sludge accompanying the silicone carbide; this process I do with water and circular movements .
The stones are quite useless if they are not flat or if they have too much steel deposited in them .
Would you that is providing the silicon carbide is sufficiently worn in; use this method to both clean off the steel and level Choseras or would that clog them up and do permanent damage to them?

I have read through the thread with considerable interest and see that scratches on the stone should not effect the sharpening they just have a bit more bite when they have been lapped I certainly feel this is how the fine stones on the EP seem to work.

I also have a Tormek with a Japanese 4000 grit stone and it is necessary to redress its surface (when there is too much steel on the surface) with the smooth side of the dressing stone which is also used to dress the other stones to 1200 grit.
So in conclusion without science to back me up the polishing or sharpening capabilities of the stone are down to the grit size and scratches greater than the grit size of the stone have no detrimental effect to the sharpening -polishing.

[Phil Pasteur]

I have read through the thread with considerable interest and see that scratches on the stone should not effect the sharpening they just have a bit more bite when they have been lapped I certainly feel this is how the fine stones on the EP seem to work.

So in conclusion without science to back me up the polishing or sharpening capabilities of the stone are down to the grit size and scratches greater than the grit size of the stone have no detrimental effect to the sharpening -polishing.

Not sure how you came to those conclusions. It seems that people with lots of experience with the stones think that texture does effect both the aggressiveness of the stones and the finish on steel. Others without as much experience have basically said that they don’t think this is true. Of course once the texture is gone, so is the effect. This would seem to be a given!

I want to see what clay turns up at 800 and 2000X.

Whether an individual sharpener believes the effects of texture are detrimental is based on what they are trying to achieve. My experience tells me that there is a definite effect. There is an effect at the edge, there is an effect in the stones feedback, and there is an effect on sharpness.

Whether one likes these effects is up to the individual. But, to make a blanket statement that they don’t exist is, at least, premature.

[Phil Pasteur]

The Micro-Fine ceramics are of course very different than any of the waterstones and what we learn with the Micro-Fines will likely only be part of the story with the waterstones. Several things jump out: texturing the stones yields a very clear difference in the bevel and edge. The rough texture is quite noticeable while sharpening; it’s much rougher feeling and sounding. Significantly more metal was deposited on the textured stones compared to the lapped stones. The scratch pattern created by the textured stones (when it actually reaches the edge) leaves a toothy edge compared with the lapped stones.

I will be surprised if we don’t see similar differences with the water stones.
Of course, the effect will not last as long due to wear of the texturing.
I think that the ridges will concentrate the local force enough that, even using the same abrasive, we will see deeper scratches in the steel.

I have seen this at the macro level… and with 100 to 400X. At that level of magnification it is not so much seeing individual scratches as it is seeing definite differences in the “background” reflectivity or polish. This is something that I can see, but I have not been able to get a camera to capture it.

Something is happening that is different. I am convinced of that! I will be very interested to see what shows up at much higher magnification levels.

[Phil Pasteur]

Would you that is providing the silicon carbide is sufficiently worn in; use this method to both clean off the steel and level Choseras or would that clog them up and do permanent damage to them?

Thought I would give my take on this. I wouldn’t do it. The Chosera stones are purchased for their qualities. I think, especially with not only the SiC, but mud from lower grit (or different grit) stones in the mix you would stand a good chance of contaminating them. I don’t think you would clog and permanently damage them. You cold always lap enough off with a diamond plate to get back to a good surface, but that would be wasting some amount of a fairly expensive stone!

Of course you may get away with it with less impact on the grits less than 1K, but again, I would not do it.

Also, I have never really had any problem with steel building up on the surface of the stones. Using them wet, they generate a bit of mud. I rinse that off and rub the stones together for a bit before drying them. That always get them to the point where they are ready for use the next time.

I would suggest either DMT or Atoma diamond plates to lap the stones when they need it.

BTW, I have one of those glass circular plates and a few different grits in SiC. I use the plate for the EP, for something the suction cups work well with, on the rare occasions that I use that device these days. I got it for flattening some older “Carborundum” type bench stones, but it turned out to be too small for me to use it effectively… for flattening. I really never even thought about using it for the Chosera Stones cut for the WEPS…

[Mark76]

I will be surprised if we don’t see similar differences with the water stones.

This is whst a major part of this topic had been about. Tom posted pics of differently lapped water stones, but that doesn’t say anything about the impact they have on the edge. The hypothesis is still (for most people here, I think) this doesn’t impact the edge.

But if Clay (or anyone else) is able to repeat the ceramics experiment with (high-grit) waterstones, we’d have the answer, I guess. Really hoping you have the time for that, Clay.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[wickededge]

Got some work done today with the Chosera 10k stones. I started with two samples at 800x:

There is a little bit of moisture that shows up from me cleaning the sample and not completely drying it.

I did a better job of drying this blade.

Attachments:

• sample-1-800x.jpg
• sample-2-800x.jpg

-Clay

[wickededge]

I flattened and textured my 10k stones with a 50# diamond plate. Here are some images after sharpening the sample with the textured stone:

200x

800x at 20 degrees

Attachments:

• Textured-200x-20-deg.jpg
• Textured-800x-20-deg.jpg

-Clay

[wickededge]

More of the sample sharpened with the textured stones:

2000x at 13 degrees

2000x at 20 degrees

2000x at 35 degrees

Attachments:

• Textured-2000x-13-deg.jpg
• Textured-2000x-20-deg.jpg
• Textured-2000x-35-deg.jpg

-Clay

[wickededge]

I then lapped my 10k stones down to 3 microns, progressing through all the diamond plates to get there:

200x at 20 degrees

800x at 20 degrees

Attachments:

• Lapped-200x-20-deg.jpg
• Lapped-800x-20-deg.jpg

-Clay

[Author]

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