Another step after 1000 diamond stones

[Phil Pasteur]

I got my basic WEPS from Bestsharpeningstones. I got started with the sandpaper by watching something on you tube.. When the guys tat the above web site hosed my order he gave me two 40 piece assortments of the films.
I got prey good with them. Basically scratch free and pretty reflective. Keep in mind, at that time I was going from the 600 grit diamonds… The 800/1K were not even being made, let alone the microfine or superfine ceramics. I impressed myself.. believe me. I think the finest paste that I had was 3.5 micron WEPS..

Just now I found some blades that I had done that way and compared them to some using the Chosera stones through 10K and the 12K Superstones, then stropping down to 0.025 micron spray on Nano Cloth. No comparison really. The older blades were… hanging hair test passing sharp. No doubt. Some of the later knives were not. Still real darn sharp, hair popping, push cutting phone book paper, sharp (probably the differences in steels)… but the reflectivity of the bevel is an order of magnitude greater. Really, nearly bathroom mirror levels. I mean to the point that when you walk into the room with the knife in the vise…that is the first thing that you see because of all of the light bouncing off of the blade bevel… I am serious.

Maybe I should take a step back one day and prep with up to the 1K diamonds and ceramics, then try the lapping papers. I am curious to see if anything can beat (short of ungodly expensive Japanese naturals) the Chosera 10K.

Yes over the last maybe a year, since I read something Clay said about switching directions cutting the scratches down faster… on the OCD blades, I have been alternating between heel to tip edge trailing and tip to heel edge leading strokes for final polishing.

BTW, you can get full 8.5 X 11 sheets of PSA 3M film in sets from the woodworking link posted above and save quite a bit of money. Sure you have to cut them up.. but lots cheaper than buying the pre-cut film as you have been.

[Matt Cole]

Ya I have been buying full sheets and cutting them down. It is substantially cheaper and I like to have them cut much closer to the size of the blank.

The problem I’m having right now is when I finish with the .3 micron film, the knife is very sharp. But after stropping, 1 and .5 spray on leather then .25 and .125 on kangaroo leather, it’s not as sharp. Much more polished, but really not that sharp.
Has anyone else had this problem? Am I doing something wrong, obviously I am but I don’t see how.

[Phil Pasteur]

Try reducing your angle by a degree or two when using the leather.
If you are not using whisper light strokes, you may be rounding the edge a bit.
With Kangaroo this should not be an issue, it is thinner and has much less give… but you are using the leather first.

There is a thread where this is discussed. It is also something I believe that Clay said that he does with the leather. I have used the technique… but find using very light strokes usually gets me there.

[Matt Cole]

Okay, thanks. Pretty frustrating to put 4 or 5 hours into a knife only to end up with a beautiful blade that won’t cut paper. I have probably been using too much pressure. They are quite tore up anyway. Is there less of this effect with the balsa stropps?

[Phil Pasteur]

Balsa does not compress nearly as much as leather… at least in theory they should not cause the effect as much.

Clay has related that he uses quite a bit of pressure when stropping, even to the point of lifting his base up when the strops are treated with alcohol to increase friction. But I he has also talked about decreasing his angles when using the leather.

I find that using light pressure with the finest stropping grits.. letting the abrasive do its job with the least interaction from the media, give me the best results.

[cbwx34]

Okay, thanks. Pretty frustrating to put 4 or 5 hours into a knife only to end up with a beautiful blade that won’t cut paper.

One thing you can do after stropping, is return to the finest stone you have (ceramics are great for this) raise the angle a degree or two, and make one or two very light passes on each side of the blade. Try either edge leading or edge trailing, and see what works best for you. Then drop back down and strop just a little bit more if desired, (but not too much). This will often clean up whatever stropping did to the edge that dulled it.

[Phil Pasteur]

That works, I have done it. Usually I want a bit of “tooth” and this is the goal for me when using this process.
What you do lose is that edge refinement that is really the point (not cosmetics) of working with the finest grit strops.

Better not to cause the problem to begin with!

[cbwx34]

That works, I have done it. Usually I want a bit of “tooth” and this is the goal for me when using this process.
What you do lose is that edge refinement that is really the point (not cosmetics) of working with the finest grit strops.

Better not to cause the problem to begin with!

In this case I’m not talking about doing enough to really change the edge, only enough to “clear up” whatever the leather did. I’m talking one very light pass… starting at one end of the edge, and moving just enough to get to the other end. It’ll change some, that’s unavoidable, but I’m not talking about adding “tooth” to a polished edge… that is usually a little more strokes.

Stropping a little more after this should get you back to the level you were at.

You’re right, its better not to cause tbis, I’m just suggesting a way to get the edge back after all the work that was done.

[Phil Pasteur]

I got it. I think we agree actually. I understand that you are offering a repair technique.
My point was that, if this is happening regularly, some close attention should be paid to modifying ones stropping technique.

There is just something that bothers me about spending three to four hours refining an edge to … 0.025 micron levels and then having to go all of the way back to something like the ceramics to make it sharp.
🙁 😉

[Geocyclist]

Has anyone tried using the marker with strops? (i.e. to see if your pressure is too hard)

When my strops were new I was afraid of getting marker on them and contamination, etc. Wondering if anyone has tried this?

[Phil Pasteur]

I have not tried it. I have thought of trying it, but the idea of contamination is a put off. I think there are solid particles in the dried marker. I would not want those coming into play as I strop … not to mention the mess created on the stops.

[Eating Pie]

Has anyone tried using the marker with strops? (i.e. to see if your pressure is too hard)

When my strops were new I was afraid of getting marker on them and contamination, etc. Wondering if anyone has tried this?

Alcohol takes the sharpie right off the leather like a charm.

But I’ve done sharpie with the leather strops only. I wouldn’t try it on the balsa because it’s too porous. The color rubs off the bevel pretty slowly… unless you put alcohol on your strops, then it comes right off. 🙂 The color basically just gets lighter and lighter, rather than showing scratches. It does tell you if you’re hitting the bevel right.

I can’t comment on other contamination in the ink. I hadn’t thought of that. The other issue is that the alcohol can dry out the leather. My original strops are pretty hard now — much harder than my balsa.

-Pie

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

The other issue is that the alcohol can dry out the leather. My original strops are pretty hard now — much harder than my balsa.

-Pie

For what ever it is worth? Knifes plus who makes a real nice strop uses olive oil to treat their strops.
” we melt down a high chrome rouge in olive oil until it is the consistency of thick vasoline. We smear and work this preparation into the leather surface with a hard rolled shop rag until the surface of the strop is thoroughly saturated and coated. Then we let the polish sink in and set for two days under low heat.”
http://www.knivesplus.com/KP-STROP8-STROPBLOCK.html
Their not the end all, but maybe some good info?

[Phil Pasteur]

I know that many here like the alcohol on strops idea. I just can’t embrace it. Yes the big thing for me is the way alcohol dries out leather. If you select leather for a stropping medium, it is because of the way it works at the edge. If you turn it into a rock, it no longer does what you got it for.
Beyond that, I did try it for a few knives, it just does not fit my technique. I like smooth almost friction free movement of the strops on the steel. Just letting the abrasives work, with a very light touch. The alcohol, as long as it is wet, does add friction, but it doesn’t “feel” right to me. As far as I can tell the added friction does not make the abrasive work any better. (AND, it ruins the strops in pretty short order.)

I don’t have any objective evidenced of this, and only a few knives worth of subjective evidence. We go back to the same discussion of whether additional friction actually translates into the ability of the lather to work the steel apart from the action of the abrasives. I think everyone that has read what I have written on this, knows my opinion on this one.

So, going the other way, I have heavily treated my hard rolled horse but (8 pound)with leather conditioner before mounting. The concept is to maintain a specific texture and compressibility for a longer time. I have used both Obenauf’s LP and Picard leather preservatives. Applied to the leather and maintained at 125 degrees F ..
applied until no more would be absorbed. Then I lap with 220 grit sandpaper finishing with 600 grit.

The feel is different than untreated leather, but not as different as the alcohol. This really seems to keep a consistency in the strops for much longer, It also seems to keep the abrasive more on the surface, as the pores of the leather are not as thirsty. They also seem to resist abrasion and slicing better… but maybe that is just due to my improved technique..
🙂

Anyway, I can tell whether the strops are doing what I want by using magnification… and the calibrated thumb method tells me quickly if I am going in the wrong direction.

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