Another step after 1000 diamond stones
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- This topic has 43 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 05/28/2013 at 5:24 am by
Phil Pasteur.
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05/23/2013 at 1:23 pm #11645
Phil is correct. Don’t fall into the grit trap. The chart on the WE site is good for photos and to reference different grits within the same type of stone. But don’t take it too seriously when going across stone types (i.e. chosera vs. diamonds)
Once you use a chosera once you will realize it is just magic. The grit table just won’t matter. You will wonder how something so smooth (like butter) can refine a great edge into something amazing.
I just did 400 – 800 choseras on a CPM M4 blade tonight after doing the 1000# last night. I am still amazed how easy these stones glide over the steel yet produce such an amazing transformation.
05/23/2013 at 1:25 pm #11646DMT Extra fine is rated 1200 grit.. I think the Extra Extra fine is 8000 grit
They are not cheap, but it seems that that grit level can be made in diamond plates.
No idea whether the supplier that WEPS uses can do those grits.Thanks Geo!
That’s the kit I got too. That is an impossible step from 1000 diamond to the microfine ceramic stones.
And I agree a 1200/1600 diamond stone would be great, I like the consistency of the diamond stones. It’s easy to step up through the grits and get all the last grits scratches out. But there probably is a reason they don’t exist.05/23/2013 at 1:55 pm #11649DMT Extra fine is rated 1200 grit.. I think the Extra Extra fine is 8000 grit
They are not cheap, but it seems that that grit level can be made in diamond plates.
No idea whether the supplier that WEPS uses can do those grits.Thanks Geo!
That’s the kit I got too. That is an impossible step from 1000 diamond to the microfine ceramic stones.
And I agree a 1200/1600 diamond stone would be great, I like the consistency of the diamond stones. It’s easy to step up through the grits and get all the last grits scratches out. But there probably is a reason they don’t exist.[/quote]
Funny you should mention those particular stones just now. Today I placed our first order for those stones fitted to our handles. Just need to wait about six weeks now.
-Clay
05/23/2013 at 3:17 pm #11650DMT Extra fine is rated 1200 grit.. I think the Extra Extra fine is 8000 grit
They are not cheap, but it seems that that grit level can be made in diamond plates.
No idea whether the supplier that WEPS uses can do those grits.Thanks Geo!
That’s the kit I got too. That is an impossible step from 1000 diamond to the microfine ceramic stones.
And I agree a 1200/1600 diamond stone would be great, I like the consistency of the diamond stones. It’s easy to step up through the grits and get all the last grits scratches out. But there probably is a reason they don’t exist.[/quote]
Funny you should mention those particular stones just now. Today I placed our first order for those stones fitted to our handles. Just need to wait about six weeks now.[/quote]
SOLD!!!
05/23/2013 at 10:46 pm #11663Yeah.. I got that.. but first someone has to have the motivation to even look… know the thing well enough to remember the “grits” thing… then find the clip…
WOAH…
Haha… I always remember that clip (probably ’cause I grew up on them, and was amazed how many people didn’t even know what they were…) so whenever someone says, “grits is (or isn’t) grits”, it pops in my head.. As for finding it… it took me longer to type this post. :silly:
DMT Extra fine is rated 1200 grit.. I think the Extra Extra fine is 8000 grit
They are not cheap, but it seems that that grit level can be made in diamond plates.They can be, but, unless things have changed, don’t expect to be dazzled by the 8000g DMT stone. When you get it, it leaves a worse finish than their XF stone. Here’s a picture I did from a few years back…
I was actually selling them at the time… so this quickly became “an issue”. I spent several days doing nothing but trying to break in this stone. I eventually got it to polish in a few areas on the stone, (but also killed a couple of sections). It will break in, and the up side is, it has a nice feel and leaves a great edge even when it’s new, but it probably shows it isn’t that easy to make such a fine diamond stone. The other upside, is, using a smaller version on the WE, should accelerate the break-in time.
Attachments:05/23/2013 at 11:31 pm #11664That’s good information, just purchased my Pro Pack 2 last week, getting great results so far!
05/24/2013 at 12:00 am #11665That’s good information, just purchased my Pro Pack 2 last week, getting great results so far!
Good to hear, and welcome to the forum! 🙂
05/24/2013 at 2:55 am #11671I agree about the fine diamond hones. I don’t have the EEF DMT, but have bought some “other” brand fine and extra fine plates. They wore to uselessness faster then I had hoped. In places the diamonds are just gone now.
I have wanted to try the DMT EEF , hoping their coating process was better. Maybe it is, but apparently not that much better…from your results anyway. The EF that I have has been OK, but I tried using it for texturing stones after lapping. That tore it up pretty quickly, so I gave up on that.I keep thinking about trying the Atoma diamond plates, but the cost versus the amount I would use them has kept me away.
I think I will buy a set anyway, just to see what they do for me…
Phil
05/24/2013 at 4:22 am #11673Funny you should mention those particular stones just now. Today I placed our first order for those stones fitted to our handles. Just need to wait about six weeks now.
What grits will it be per handle? And is that an order for internal testing / evaluation or is it for selling?
05/24/2013 at 10:10 am #11682I had come to that conclusion at one point but I think the 1200 ceramic stone still gets the 1000 grit diamond scratches out faster than the micro fine. And my microfine stones are quite a bit newer than the fine as they were back ordered.
05/24/2013 at 10:18 am #11683I ordered the 800/1000 Chosera and the 2000/3000 Chosera stones yesterday, do you think there is any reason to get the courser Chosera stones if I have the diamond stones through1000. I mean any difference in end result changing to Chosera at 400 as opposed to after the 1000 diamond?
05/24/2013 at 3:17 pm #11690I would give what you ordered a try and see what you think.
At most it is about speed. Sometimes I go back to the 400 and work up. More often to the 600. Sometime I go from the 1K diamonds to the 1K Chosera stones… Depends on the steel and what I am looking for in the final result… and maybe how much time I have to spend on a blade. It is a matter of how quickly you want to replace the diamond scratches with Chosera scratches.You may well be happy with what you have coming. Give it a shot.
05/25/2013 at 5:49 am #11701I’m not through the thread yet, but spotted this and thought I could comment — maybe even intelligently! 😀
DMT Extra fine is rated 1200 grit.. I think the Extra Extra fine is 8000 grit
They are not cheap, but it seems that that grit level can be made in diamond plates.
No idea whether the supplier that WEPS uses can do those grits.Thanks Geo!
That’s the kit I got too. That is an impossible step from 1000 diamond to the microfine ceramic stones.
And I agree a 1200/1600 diamond stone would be great, I like the consistency of the diamond stones. It’s easy to step up through the grits and get all the last grits scratches out. But there probably is a reason they don’t exist.
[/quote]
The DMT EEF can be had for just south of $15.00 for a 4.3 x 0.9 x 0.2 inches sample. I use “Permanent” double-sided tape, sticky enough to hold the stone tightly in place, not too sticky to keep you from getting it off. The only issue is that you have to remove the platen from the handle — just six screws. But this gives you a good chance to test without a massive investment.I personally found it too abrasive, even though it’s rated at about 3 micron vs. the 1000 stone’s 7 micron. I’m sure it needs a break-in period, but I didn’t like it enough to keep it. More anecdotal evidence that no two microns are the same. 🙂
Update: I typed the above even before reading this post! 😀
I also thought I should share my experience with the 3M Micro Abrasive Film/Paper (aka PSA). Here’s my source for the 3M PSA paper.
I like the 3M PSA because it was inexpensive and was easy to use. I had no problems taping it onto the 800 or 1K stones, as the backing is very adhesive. I have used the 5u, 1u and 0.3u Aluminum Oxide. After I gained some experience with them, I noticed a slightly hazy look to my finish, rather than a nice shiny mirror.
I changed to using just the 5u AlOx (site above sells on Silicon Carbide in 5u), and subsequently jumping to strops/pastes (same micron progression) from there. This performed better than the 5 to .3 all-PSA progression, AND better than the 5 to .25 all-strop/diamond paste progression! I had a more noticeable mirror from the 5u AlOx PSA to 3.5u-1u-.25u diamond-on-balsa.
I have not used ceramic on the WE yet, but from descriptions and experience on Lansky/Spyderco, I get the impression the 5u AlOx is acting like a ceramic. I’ve seen ceramic described as “more uniform” and “hazy” in its shine, and this is [exactly how I’d describe the 5u AlOx. I’ve also heard it said that you can get a better mirror by using ceramic prior to stropping — the uniform / hazy scratches aren’t as deep as the diamond, so the strops shine them out nicely. My experience also matches up with that.
The drawback to the paper is that it’s paper. If you have a turned edge, they may (okay, probably will) scratch up before they raise it to vertical. I’ve also scratched them up when the knife tip was turned. Need a stone for that stuff (I only have the 1K and it’s too abrasive for touch-ups like that). But given the PSA’s low cost and total ease of use, I think it’s something worth trying.
-Pie
05/25/2013 at 6:46 am #11705Pie,
I have seen much the same when using the 3M lapping films. I haven’t done any comparison testing between them and the WEPS ceramic stones.The big thing that eventually turned me off on them is that they just don’t last. It seems that I was changing them every couple of blades. They are relatively cheap, but if you sharpen enough, within a fairly short period of time…you may as well have bought a set of stones..
BTW, PSA stands for Pressure Sensitive Adhesive.
You can get the 3M films with either plain or PSA backing.05/25/2013 at 10:15 am #11717I have been getting the films from Bestsharpeningstones.com. I use the yellow, 12 mic through the white @ .3 in 6 steps total. I bought 3 sets of handles with al blanks from the same site. They last about 3 knives for me but I like that As soon as I get the 1000 diamond scratches out with either 1200 ceramic or the 1.4 mic ceramic, I can go strait to the film progression. Then strop 1 mic down to .125 and have a near perfect mirrored edge with no visible scratches, to the naked eye.
By the way, it is still quite a battle to get those 1000 grit diamond scratches out although I discovered yesterday that it can be done with the 1.4 mic. Micro fine ceramic stones.
The only way I can end up with no visible scratches is to alternate between up and down motions and hilt to tip motions to be sure I have ALL the previous grits scratches out, at least up to the films. Does anyone else do it this way? It seems every time I try to do it all in the same direction, no matter how thurough I think I am being, I end up with a mirror Finish with scattered scratches and scuffs.
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