New member from Switzerland
- This topic has 13 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 06/04/2018 at 3:50 pm by
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Hi everyone!
Ordered the Pro-Pack II, along with a few items Kyle recommended: 12″ Guide Rods, the 1500 Grit Diamond Stones and Blank Glass Platens, 6 Micron Diamond Lapping Film, the Advanced Alignment Guide and a Superaser. Looking forward to get acquainted with the system, planning to use it for kitchen knives (carbon as well as stainless) mainly, although one never knows.
Curious in which order the additional stones/lapping films fit in: 100 (if necessary) / 200 (dito) / 400 / 600 / 800 / 1000 / 1500 / 6µ lapping film / 1.4µ ceramic / 0.4µ ceramic – or is using both the lapping film and the ceramics overkill?
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
Welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum David.
The conversation of grit progression, how to decide and where they all fit together is a frequent and constant topic of the Forum. The simplest answer, with no disrespect, is to see for yourself. Once you get the hang of your system and get a technique down that gives you the results you’re happy with then try a knife sharpened only to 1000 grit and use it. Then take it to 1500 grit and use it. The add a finer grit, etc, etc. The order of grits you listed in your post is very practical and do-able. There’s nothing wrong with that. For working kitchen knives you’ll use on a regular basis it may not be necessary or practical to take it through the entire grit progression you have listed. You left off the strops?? I always finish every sharpened knife with at least a two grit progression of stropping.
I just sharpened three fish filet knives for a buddy (in exchange for fresh fish) and I took them 200, 400….1500, then 1.6µ ceramic, 0.6µ, then 4µ, and 2µ leather strops. They were hair popping sharp and mirrored enough to read newsprint. I did not intentionally sharpen them for shinny mirrored bevels. That just goes hand in hand with well sharpened knife edges taken down to fine grits.
I do suggest you look into some lighted, magnified, visual aide to help you to inspect your sharpened knife edges. Many of use USB Microscopes with laptops or PCs. Also don’t forget about safety items. After all we are working with sharp unprotected knife edges.
Remember there is a learning curve to using the Wicked Edge Precision Sharpening Systems, (all of them), and a break-in period for your abrasive stone mediums. This is roughly ten knives or so per stone grit.
Marc
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Dear Marc
Thanks for your reply! Yes, I did “forget” the strops for the simple reason that one always does it anyhow, and I’m not thinking of it as sharpening, nor even removing the scratch pattern, but polishing (off the burr, at least traditionally). Already ordered a USB microscope, as I’m curious to see the results and learn from them. Safety: I’ll probably get gloves, but am planning to get them locally, because I’d really want to try them on for a perfect fit – I doubt I’ll be happy wearing them, though. Regarding the learning curve and stone break-in, I’ve already read a number of articles and posts (among other in this forum), and realize there’s no way around it – as with everything in life. But I’ll need to find at least half a dozen more knives for the purpose – maybe some of the beat-up ones used for cooking classes. Thanks again!
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
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I just sharpened three fish filet knives for a buddy (in exchange for fresh fish) and I took them 200, 400….1500, then 1.6µ ceramic, 0.6µ, then 4µ, and 2µ leather strops. They were hair popping sharp and mirrored enough to read newsprint. I did not intentionally sharpen them for shinny mirrored bevels. That just goes hand in hand with well sharpened knife edges taken down to fine grits.
Sorry this isn’t probably appropriate for this thread, but the mention of fileting knives reminds me of something I saw on TV last year. Don’t recall which show, but they did a tour of the Martinii factory, where a lot of the knives are made. The owner stressed that they always sharpen their knives to 22 dps. Interesting, as I was never able to get a clear answer on that point until then. I did a number of filet knives for friends that do a lot of fishing. For lack of better info, I sharpened theirs to 17 dps. They raved about how the knives performed on panfish and walleyes, so now I’m a bit confused. I’ll conclude that anything between 17 and 22 will work fine. Maybe hard-boned fish are too tough on acute angles.
And welcome aboard, David!
2 users thanked author for this post.
I just sharpened three fish filet knives for a buddy (in exchange for fresh fish) and I took them 200, 400….1500, then 1.6µ ceramic, 0.6µ, then 4µ, and 2µ leather strops. They were hair popping sharp and mirrored enough to read newsprint. I did not intentionally sharpen them for shinny mirrored bevels. That just goes hand in hand with well sharpened knife edges taken down to fine grits.
Sorry this isn’t probably appropriate for this thread, but the mention of fileting knives reminds me of something I saw on TV last year. Don’t recall which show, but they did a tour of the Martinii factory, where a lot of the knives are made. The owner stressed that they always sharpen their knives to 22 dps. Interesting, as I was never able to get a clear answer on that point until then. I did a number of filet knives for friends that do a lot of fishing. For lack of better info, I sharpened theirs to 17 dps. They raved about how the knives performed on panfish and walleyes, so now I’m a bit confused. I’ll conclude that anything between 17 and 22 will work fine. Maybe hard-boned fish are too tough on acute angles. And welcome aboard, David!
That kind of information/discussion is very interesting to me, as I don’t think anyone has ever studied this apart from – perhaps – a particular knife design and steel that they’re using for said design etc. Personally, I’ve always thought consistency of angle is more important than the angle itself, and that regardless, one is looking for a compromise since edge retention is key for work knives. I’ve literally tried edges that would not hold up beyond that very first magical cut, and I honestly don’t see how going to extremes could be of practical use aside from robot-assisted surgery (and there is literally no such thing as “sharpening” for those type of blades). I’m not sure if 22° is merely a safe choice for a factory edge, or perfect for filleting since one tends to cut along rather than through tissue, where too sharp an edge may not be ideal.
I’d love to learn more about what angles are best for certain types of knife designs and steels. I remember seeing a YouTube video of Clay sharpening a CCK 1303, the type of Chinese small “cleaver” (the English term is misleading IMHO) I might take along to Asian cooking classes to give people an impression of their one-for-all purpose knife used for street cooking, which he sharpened to 9.8°, i.e. one giant razor blade – too bad the comment section was disabled, as I’d have loved to ask him how long the edge held up hitting the (if memory serves) bamboo board (as a friend of mine who’s teaching chefs loves to say: “What are you cutting most often? The board!”). As far as I know, the carbon steel used for CCK is not virgin – as popular as these (the slightly larger size possibly more so) are, they’re affordable Hong Kong work horse veggie prep knives after all.
I’m sorry if I’m digressing…
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
You should be OK. As long as you didn’t receive the “your order has been shipped” email you should be fine. It may be worth a phone call tomorrow, or at least try the “live chat”. They’ve been out of the office at a “Blade Show” so when they’re back it’ll be a lot of catch-up on emails and such.
Thanks, will do that!
Noticing the one item I’d be “missing” through the upgrade are the Micro Fine Ceramics – it looks as if the 6µ diamond lapping film “replaces” those? I’m wondering if I need both: I read an entire thread on here and elsewhere with scratch pattern pics Clay provided, and it looked to me very much as if the lapping films do a great job. Could imagine the ceramics have a greater lifespan, though?
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
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IMO, you really don’t need the ceramics if you have the 1500/glass stones with 6 micron film. While they are quite effective, most users have said that they don’t produce the same uniform quality of scratch patterns as the film or the diamond stones. I was an early convert to diamond lapping film and I soon retired my super-fine and micro-fine ceramics. To be honest though, part of this was that I tried lapping the ceramics to flatten them and altered their “apparent” grit. Ceramic stones do not have “grit” per se. I think they are made by baking a slurry of minerals (?) into a ceramic casting. They are rated as producing a scratch pattern which is equivalent to traditional abrasive grits.
One ceramic you might think about is the rounded-face stones intended for concave edges. I never purchased one and I have done a few seriously concave edges successfully with the regular stones. Here’s a photo:
IMO, you really don’t need the ceramics if you have the 1500/glass stones with 6 micron film. While they are quite effective, most users have said that they don’t produce the same uniform quality of scratch patterns as the film or the diamond stones. I was an early convert to diamond lapping film and I soon retired my super-fine and micro-fine ceramics. To be honest though, part of this was that I tried lapping the ceramics to flatten them and altered their “apparent” grit. Ceramic stones do not have “grit” per se. I think they are made by baking a slurry of minerals (?) into a ceramic casting. They are rated as producing a scratch pattern which is equivalent to traditional abrasive grits. One ceramic you might think about is the rounded-face stones intended for concave edges. I never purchased one and I have done a few seriously concave edges successfully with the regular stones. Here’s a photo:
Thanks! Looks like a Zwilling to me. Not sure if they’re still making these handles, but I have at least one 9-1/2″ Chef Knife from that series lying around that I intend to practice on after a handful cheap knives, but before I move on to the really expensive stuff (in, hopefully, a month or so…). What angle did you go for?
Greetings from Switzerland, David.
Thanks! Looks like a Zwilling to me. Not sure if they’re still making these handles, but I have at least one 9-1/2″ Chef Knife from that series lying around that I intend to practice on after a handful cheap knives, but before I move on to the really expensive stuff (in, hopefully, a month or so…). What angle did you go for? Greetings from Switzerland, David.
I’m pretty sure you’re right about it being a Zwilling-Henckel. I sharpened it to 20 dps.
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