My Three Shuns….
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- This topic has 11 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10/09/2014 at 3:41 am by
Fred Hermann.
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10/06/2014 at 9:50 pm #20646
A good friend has given me their three Shuns to sharpen.
Shun Hiro 7″ Santoku —
SG0702
SG-2 powdered steel core with stainless Damascus claddingShun Premier 6″ Chef —
TDM023
VG10 core with stainless Damascus claddingShun Reserve 3 1/2″ Paring —
ND0700
SG-2 core with stainless Damascus claddingI’ve sharpened some Henckels, a MAC, a Global. But, these, to my eye & mind are the nicest kitchen knives I’ll have worked on….
I’m a little nervous but confident that the WE coupled with my technique will give him an edge he desires.
On the two larger knives that is…. they just need some tender touch-up.
Shun says 16 degrees. I’ll check that with the marker. Since I’ll want to strop at a lower angle, I’ll likely use the Low Angle Adapter.
(I didn’t see any of these in the database so will enter them when done.)
So far so good.
The paring knife has a bit of an issue…. the very tippest part of the tip is bent.
As perhaps you can see, it’s about 1.5 mm
How do I rectify that?
I’ve got too many untried and untested ideas spinning around in my head.
Please, if you have a moment, give me an idea…
? Pound it out on an anvil?
? Bend it back into shape with pliers?
? Reprofile a whole new curve?
? Make it even more of a drop point?~~~~
Shun’s site, obviously, notes this as misuse but it says:“However, Shun can attempt to repair and/or to reshape the edge of your knife for you. If our attempt is unsatisfactory or unsuccessful, Shun is not responsible for replacing the knife.”
So, my buddy has let me have a go at it.
~~~~I haven’t started on these yet and will start at the top and work my way down. Just because they get more challenging as they go.
The Santoku just needs a touch up. The Chef’s knife has a small “catch” in the blade. With jewelers’ loops and my cheap microscope I haven’t seen anything, but it definitely catches in the same place every time.
It’s that Paring knife tip that is bugging me…
Thanks in advance for your insightful ideas.
~~~~
For Now,Gib
Φ
"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"
"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."
10/07/2014 at 3:44 am #20652Gib,
Normally on something like that I will use a small pair of plyers that I have that are smooth (i.e. they don’t have teeth inside of them) and then bend it back as straight as I can. Worse case scenario it snaps and I simply re-shape the entire tip (normally by removing metal from the spine side and then buffing). Even if you go with plan B it is likely he won’t even notice much of a difference. I just am not sure if you have a belt sander for this or not?
Sorry I can’t offer more advise!
10/07/2014 at 7:36 pm #20666Thanks, Josh…..
I’ll follow-up here as I attempt that tip fixing….
First the Santoku & Chef’s…
~~~~
For Now,Gib
Φ
"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"
"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."
10/08/2014 at 1:55 am #20673Hardest for last! 😀
10/08/2014 at 10:13 am #20678I’ve come across a few bent tips and I use a little different approach. I lay the blade on an anvil and hold a flat chunk of steel (maybe hockey-puck size) on top of the bent part of the blade. I then apply a light hammer blow or blows to the top steel as required, trying to focus the forces in the area of the tip. It’s similar to auto body work and it minimizes the chances of further damaging the blade steel. Think of it as flattening the blade in a vise, except that the vise uses impact.
That said, I can really empathize with Gib on the pressure you feel when working with such quality. Whoo-ee! Those are some gorgeous knives.
10/08/2014 at 1:34 pm #20680Thanks, Josh…..
I’ll follow-up here as I attempt that tip fixing….
First the Santoku & Chef’s…
SG-2 is a really nice steel and in my experience Shun got their heat treatment right on this one. No special precautions necessary and nothing to worry about.
Shun did not get their heat treatment right on all of their VG-10 blades. I’d be a little careful with this one: don’t sharpen it lower than 15 degrees (20 might even be better) and if you need to reprofile or remove that “catch” first see if you can do that with the 400 grit or 200 grit stones before moving to the 100 grit ones.
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
10/08/2014 at 6:57 pm #20687Hardest for last! 😀
Funny!
But no joke!!
Sometimes I jump right in!!! Other times my confidence (or lack thereof) dictates I build some experience up slowly.
~~~~
For Now,Gib
Φ
"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"
"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."
10/08/2014 at 7:30 pm #20689SG-2 is a really nice steel and in my experience Shun got their heat treatment right on this one. No special precautions necessary and nothing to worry about.
I took my time setting the blade in the vise. Measured the angles, checked and double-checked the math, re-read the thread and re-watched Josh’s video, re-checked my measurements and angles, applied the marker, checked that the factory angle was indeed (very close to) 16 degrees per side using the 1000 plate.
I’m trying to improve my photographic skills…. from what I could visually see the marker disappeared in a few strokes. It’s a very new knife so I’m guessing it didn’t need a lot of new metal exposed so I just went from 1000 to the ceramics and strops in my Pro Pack II.
I forgot to ask Dan how he uses the knife but found a Williams-Sonoma YouTube video. It shows a rocking, primarily push cutting motion. The draw action does some cutting but generally is just re-positioning the blade.
I mention this regarding the direction of the teeth. If I’ve visualized the tooth direction correctly, the “normal” WE action of up and forward creates the right direction of bite for push cutting.
Is that correct?
~~~~
Shun did not get their heat treatment right on all of their VG-10 blades. I’d be a little careful with this one: don’t sharpen it lower than 15 degrees (20 might even be better) and if you need to reprofile or remove that “catch” first see if you can do that with the 400 grit or 200 grit stones before moving to the 100 grit ones.
Thank you for benefit of your experience! I’d done some online research but hadn’t found any mention of the heat treatment.
This nice little Chef’s knife is in the vise now. I’ve done all the mounting steps. Took me a few tries to get the front curve setup. Checked everything with the angle cube and the marker. Again, Shun says 16 degrees per side.
So, I haven’t really started it yet. With friends coming through town for the next couple of days, it might be this weekend before I get back to it.
I’m thinking again that I might drop no lower than the 800. I’ll be able to tell if that catchy spot goes away or not. Just the few strokes removing marker seemed to help….
All three knives are less than 6 months old. Dan knows what he’s doing in the kitchen. His threshold of dullness is most people’s razors.
So, there’s not a lot of abuse (except for the tip of the paring, which happened by someone else’s hands) to rectify. Just bring ’em back.
~~~~
For Now,Gib
Φ
"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"
"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."
10/08/2014 at 7:45 pm #20690I’ve come across a few bent tips and I use a little different approach. I lay the blade on an anvil and hold a flat chunk of steel (maybe hockey-puck size) on top of the bent part of the blade. I then apply a light hammer blow or blows to the top steel as required, trying to focus the forces in the area of the tip. It’s similar to auto body work and it minimizes the chances of further damaging the blade steel. Think of it as flattening the blade in a vise, except that the vise uses impact.
That said, I can really empathize with Gib on the pressure you feel when working with such quality. Whoo-ee! Those are some gorgeous knives.
Good idea for the tip straightening…
At the Oregon Knife show last April, in a workshop, Murray Carter talked about how to examine a blade and correct issues.. very interesting…
He mentioned over and over to take it slow (and always try to do your examination outside in the Sun).
Don’t ever try to correct it all at one time.
I tried a few squeezes with some brand new flat bladed pliers and squeezed them with a high-powered vice-clamp. Did OK.
I can just barely recognize the bend when looking at the edge. But looking at the sides, I can still see the “waviness” in the light reflection where it was bent.
I saw a video of Clay in which he said (more or less — highly paraphrased to serve my point) many blades can have slight waves in them but that doesn’t keep them from being wicked sharp cutters.
~~~~
And you had to mention the pressure! Thanks….. :cheer: :woohoo:Dan had me do a bunch of old beater knives for him a while back for his kids.
I know he sent a knife or two to Williams-Sonoma for their free resharpening and isn’t happy.
So, I’m taking this as a vote of his confidence.
But, see, I read a horror story of someone sharpening a knife, returning it and it had been a “false edge” and after a few moments use in a critical situation it became unusable, dull.
I know how sharp MY knives are, how long the edge lasts. But, that story (true or not) haunts me when I return someone’s knife to them. What if…..
Especially with someone who really knows what they are doing and their gorgeous knives.
~~~~
For Now,Gib
Φ
"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"
"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."
10/08/2014 at 7:57 pm #20692I think you’re worrying too much Gib… relax, have fun, take it slow, and you will do what you always do – produce a razor sharp, high quality edge that will LAST :silly: Sometimes I have to tell myself this when working on high end customs… Steel is just steel, and it will perform like steel, regardless if it’s cheaper or insanely expensive. Kind of like: before you go to meet with the king of some country you tell yourself that he is simply a man just like you, and still has to get up and pull his pants on every day.
Hope this helps =)
I am very interested in what Murray Carter recommends about straightening bent tips… I had a bunch to do last night and wasn’t so successful, it worked decently, but they weren’t perfect by any means. But part of my point of view here is that if they were not that smart to pry with them in the first place then I will do my best and leave it be.
Tom, your take on straightening them is very interesting! Does it work well? I would think that it wouldn’t get all of the bend out because, often you have to over compensate to get it back straight. That being said, it probably works better than my method lol 😛
10/08/2014 at 9:40 pm #20701Oh, by the way, I am not 100% sure it is the heat treatment Shun did not get right. The only thing I know is that their VG10 has a tendency to micro-chip. And since this is not the case with many other manufacturers, I assume it is their heat treatment.
But maybe I should not have mentioned this. Josh is right. Steel is just steel. Don’t use too much pressure and everything should work out fine.
Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge
10/09/2014 at 3:41 am #20713Another thought.
I’ve had nice slow success with this technique.
Use a soft metal or hard wood for the anvil, and wood for the mallet. So its always being hit and rebounding off something softer than the steel.
And sunlight is invaluable as a light source…
Just a thought. -
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