Angles sound good to me.
If you can do it without reclamping… that’s what I would do. Since it’s just a straight edge, you can clamp it vertically in whatever position works best (middle?).
[quote]I have all week to work on it - will return it to him next sat. at the fare…maybe like trade for yet another skinner he has - only guessing.
i think i will give it a try on the micro, B U T is there a rule of thumb on higher after first sharpening???..meaning if i complete at 17* where do i go from there? or say 18* - or does it make all that much difference?
say 18* and then 21* or 22*[/quote]
Any “rules of thumb” have to be based on the type of steel as well as the intended use.
With that steel, I might use 20 degrees and leave it at that. Again.. talk to him. If he is not happy, it will only take minutes to chuck it up and ad a bit of tooth at maybe 21 or 22 degrees.
My concern is that any kind of micro bevel you will add just will not last long… From what I read… edge retention is not all that great on the X50 steel. Leave as much meat behind the edge as you can..
IMHO.
Question here.
If one has a primary bevel at say 20/side, and makes a micro bevel at say 22/side. . . . When the 22 bevel becomes dull, does the
20 bevel shine thru?
Hope this makes sense
i just finished it up moments ago…for the night.
some strop work in the morning…she is bad to the bone right now.
when with factory edge of 20*… :whistel:
depth key atF was dead on…stand by
here is a short video on a few knives i sharpened monday and did some timing on.
at the end is the finished up Victorinox 11" skinner.
video is like: 8 mins
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkPKt6b2nYY
[quote quote=“Mikedoh” post=11711]Question here.
If one has a primary bevel at say 20/side, and makes a micro bevel at say 22/side. . . . When the 22 bevel becomes dull, does the
20 bevel shine thru?
Hope this makes sense[/quote]
No (if I understand your question), the sharpness is based on the 22 deg. edge, once it dulls, it would need to be touched up.
Knives in the video look good! I’ll admit the fix you made to the chipped knife gave me pause… I don’t grind out just the damage like that… I’ll work the whole edge to sharpen out damage.
How long did the skinner take?
[quote quote=“cbwx34” post=11757][quote quote=“Mikedoh” post=11711]Question here.
If one has a primary bevel at say 20/side, and makes a micro bevel at say 22/side. . . . When the 22 bevel becomes dull, does the
20 bevel shine thru?
Hope this makes sense[/quote]
No (if I understand your question), the sharpness is based on the 22 deg. edge, once it dulls, it would need to be touched up.
Knives in the video look good! I’ll admit the fix you made to the chipped knife gave me pause… I don’t grind out just the damage like that… I’ll work the whole edge to sharpen out damage.
How long did the skinner take?[/quote]
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total time on skinner - 55 mins…i guess the steel was not all that great, sharpened up pretty fast…30 mins of the time was stropping.
pause did you 
i presume with that grade of S/S it will need sharpening again soon with any use.
it will serve him fine for a spell. i will tell him to buy a leather strop - i likem.
see you Curtis
thanks
Max Thank you for taking the time to post your hard work! There is really some great lessons for me to learn from you! Normally I could not let the knife with the small glitch go? Also I would STILL be grinding away on the badly gouged knife :sick: I need to take lessons from you and relax my style some (or lack of) and actually give them their monies worth in reverse. I think in my case I can’t let the OCD thing go? :unsure:
Clay also mentioned it and I need to really take it to heart and learn how to sharpen using the higher grits only. Please keep posting as I’m learning a lot from you and I get a kick out of you as well :cheer:
I hear you on this… that’s why I think just setting up a simple standard process, (especially if you’re in a position where volume matters), with as few steps as possible, might be the way to go.
Like others have said, you’ll probably hand them back a knife better than they’ve ever seen to begin with.
Agreed!
With a few small caveats…
I still say for volume, get a belt grinder and a good selection of belts. NOT because it does as good a job as the WEPS, but it does a very good job (if the operator does their part) and it is very, very fast.
I get reactions along the lines of… “my knives have never been this sharp”…
I like the idea that I can also offer more. If someone wants a mirror polish and sub-micron edge refinement, I will give it to them. But, they will pay more than $8.00 for it.. much more.
I also like the idea of being able to work with regular customers to develop an edge that will suit their needs better than the “mass produced” one. Again, more time = more money though.
These last two are where the WEPS really shines…:cheer:
[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11768]Agreed!
I still say for volume, get a belt grinder and a good selection of belts. NOT because it does as good a job as the WEPS, but it does a very good job (if the operator does their part) and it is very, very fast.
[/quote]
Phil would you mind throwing out a couple names for belt grinders? PM me if that would be more comfortable? I now believe I went in to this thing backwards? However I Love my WEPS I truly find a zen moment using it! I would not trade it for a belt grinder, just an addition.
Sent a PM…
Please send me an email message and we can discuss.
[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11768]Agreed!
With a few small caveats…
I still say for volume, get a belt grinder and a good selection of belts. NOT because it does as good a job as the WEPS, but it does a very good job (if the operator does their part) and it is very, very fast.
I get reactions along the lines of… “my knives have never been this sharp”…
I like the idea that I can also offer more. If someone wants a mirror polish and sub-micron edge refinement, I will give it to them. But, they will pay more than $8.00 for it.. much more.
I also like the idea of being able to work with regular customers to develop an edge that will suit their needs better than the “mass produced” one. Again, more time = more money though.
These last two are where the WEPS really shines…:cheer:[/quote].
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I AGREE ALSO
i use a belt grinder on many knives i bring home - especially for restaurant knives.
at fair, no electricity supplied…but if needed, it can be used for additional amount.
I don’t agree… and to me, that’s the point of this thread. The WE is more than capable of sharpening a knife in just a couple of minutes, if you follow the points of how it’s done. You can reserve your belt grinder for really major work, or for work that really can’t be done on the WE.
There seems to be a tendency, beyond this thread (or even this forum), that WE users feel like (seems like?) they have to take an inordinate amount of time to get a knife sharp, they have to use every stone in their setup, and that every knife has to be hair whittling sharp, with mirror edges, etc.. There’s a time and place (and charge if you’re headed that direction) for this, but what’s being overlooked is the speed capablilites that the WE offers.
Hope that makes sense.
[quote quote=“cbwx34” post=11775]I don’t agree… and to me, that’s the point of this thread. The WE is more than capable of sharpening a knife in just a couple of minutes, if you follow the points of how it’s done. You can reserve your belt grinder for really major work, or for work that really can’t be done on the WE.
There seems to be a tendency, beyond this thread (or even this forum), that WE users feel like (seems like?) they have to take an inordinate amount of time to get a knife sharp, they have to use every stone in their setup, and that every knife has to be hair whittling sharp, with mirror edges, etc.. There’s a time and place (and charge if you’re headed that direction) for this, but what’s being overlooked is the speed capablilites that the WE offers.
Hope that makes sense. :)[/quote].
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The WE is more than capable of sharpening a knife in just a couple of minutes, if you follow the points of how it’s done…HERE is where i seem to struggle.
i need to be much faster - not looking to polish - knives are as most know - very sharp for consumers past 800/1000 diamonds - on many knives, i stop at 600 and use my ceramics. yesterday i bought some new ones from clay - the 1200/1600 to use after the 600 - many months ago they were out of stock and i ended up with the coarse/fine ones.
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but what’s being overlooked is the speed capablilites that the WE offers…I WILL AGREE it does pretty good once i get a burr, but many knives i have encounted, this is a slow step for me - the new 50/80’s have helped…(not used 50’s yet).
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at the fare, people are just amazed at the WE and the paddles moving up and down and in and out, some just stare and watch and comment…the whole foods inside fathers day gig is attracting many customers already signed up on facebook (WF is limited each to 3 knives) - i am very interested on how the inside thing will be - sounds pretty kewl right now.
stand by for more - see ya
I can agree that raising the burr and reprofiling are by far the most time consuming portions, especially on knives that have really seen better days and haven’t been sharp for a long, long time… I think in my case I tend to want to err on the acute side angle wise, and should just match the existing angles to speed up the process, raise a quick burr and polish it out to 600 or so. Oddly enough, 600 and a few whacks on the 5um leather does REALLY well for a general purpose edge. I’ve been playing with 600+strop a lot lately and rarely go beyond 1000 grit except for special requests.
[quote quote=“cbwx34” post=11775]I don’t agree… and to me, that’s the point of this thread. The WE is more than capable of sharpening a knife in just a couple of minutes, if you follow the points of how it’s done. You can reserve your belt grinder for really major work, or for work that really can’t be done on the WE.
There seems to be a tendency, beyond this thread (or even this forum), that WE users feel like (seems like?) they have to take an inordinate amount of time to get a knife sharp, they have to use every stone in their setup, and that every knife has to be hair whittling sharp, with mirror edges, etc.. There’s a time and place (and charge if you’re headed that direction) for this, but what’s being overlooked is the speed capablilites that the WE offers.
Hope that makes sense. :)[/quote]
Since I started watching this forum and then a WE owner really precision is what I was taught. To my knowledge no one has emphasized going quick with the WE? I am now trying to break that trend for myself. I never really thought of the We as a speed machine, more of a precision type instrument.
It makes sense to stop at 600 and strop? I do it hand sharpening just never on the WE? I’m glad we are talking about it! It does make sense!
It definitely is a mindset.
Curtis is obviously making …or trying to make the point that the WEPS CAN be used as a production sharpening machine. I believe that, with the proper operator and the ability to make production type decisions about time spent versus results it can be just that.
My responses are based on my mindset. So far I have not gotten to the place where I can take a knife off of the WEPS vice without lamenting over the fact that it could have been better.
My failing, admittedly. BUT as per what Curtis says (and all that I read), it is not mine alone!
OTH.. there are systems that will make things faster. Of that I can assure you. It depends on how one wants to deal with compromises..
I will never give up my WEPS…as long as I can still sharpen blades.
Keep that in mind while reading my response.
A craftsman that still wants to eat, will have the proper tool in his box for each situation!:cheer:
I was the same way with the WE. Everything has to be perfect all the time! My knives are still perfect and the ones I do for family or friends are perfect or the ones who want to pay for it can have it perfect. Sharpening for the public is different. Now it takes 1 to 2 minutes to set up the blade to sharpen and 5 to 8 to sharpen the rest of the way which is 10 minutes per blade for the general sharpening and prices go up from there. But sharpening at the farmers market I am charging $5 each for up to a 6" knife with a decent edge that does not require re profiling and more for longer blades. I have also gotten to where you know whether it is in the top or bottom slots, then you just eyeball the fwd and aft measurement quickly to where you want the blade, the other thing is with the angle cube to get it within +/- 1 degree of your desired angle. So a 20 degree could be at 19 to 21 degrees and it does not matter if one side is 19 and the other is 20. The angle depends on how crummy the blades are if it is a junky blade it may be 30 degrees on each side. I do not want to spent 10 min just resetting the single bevel at 20 degrees when I can make it more obtuse at 25 or 30 degrees per side. Next are the grits, I start with the 80 usually to get a even working edge then work up to 600 then hit it with 10 strokes each side of the coarse ceramic the 10 each of the fine ceramic, 10 strokes of the 1 micron strop then 10 of the 0.5 micron strop. I am sharpening to make a profit and not to make it a perfect mirror polished hair popping edge. This process I use is similar to what Clay mentioned and it turns out a knife sharper than any of them have ever had on a knife. I do offer to do the whole works on the knives if they want to pay for that service and I do those at home normally or if it is slow I can do it there. this edge will still cut copy paper and phone book paper. Maybe not turning out a “perfect” edge will save you time.
Best of luck
Jed
i more or less set up and do as jed does, but tommorrow on some knives i will try what clay suggested and start out at 400 - maybe a few at 200.
here is a shade over 6 min. vid i did for practice tonight for sat.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTcPZGw_7Q0