I defer to the gurus on here, but I’d mark the edge with a sharpie to find the current angle and use that.
Many people on here seem to prefer the edge left by the 1000 diamond for hunting and fishing.
Even of they produce a shiny show blade, and it’s a knife the use, the will make a micro bevel with the 1000 diamond
because of how it performs.
You could also add a micro bevel , say if sharpened at 18/side, make a micro bevel at 20/side which would make sharpening quicker next time.
Is there anything on the knife that identifies it to where you could find out what kind of steel it is made from, the hardness? To me, quite a large influence on what I will try on a given blade is determined by the type of steel that I will be dealing with.
With some of the lower grade steels that may be hardened at Rc under 56 or so, you are probably better off staying close to the factory grind. If it is a better grade and harder, it should support (in general) a more acute angle. Lower angles do reduce cutting effort.
Clay has reported that he likes a micro-bevel with the 1200 ceramics (IIRC) for field dressing game (after full edge refinement). I think the tooth thing is fine for vegetables and fibrous materials. I think if I was doing a filet knife I would go as refined as possible.
There is an advantage if you will be seeing this person regularly. You can try something and see what he thinks about the performance then go from there. Once you have the angle, it is not hard nor very time consuming to add a bit of tooth… or do a bit of stropping for them. That would give you a good learning opportunity and maybe get you a customer for life…
[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11629]Is there anything on the knife that identifies it to where you could find out what kind of steel it is made from, the hardness? To me, quite a large influence on what I will try on a given blade is determined by the type of steel that I will be dealing with.
With some of the lower grade steels that may be hardened at Rc under 56 or so, you are probably better off staying close to the factory grind. If it is a better grade and harder, it should support (in general) a more acute angle. Lower angles do reduce cutting effort.
Clay has reported that he likes a micro-bevel with the 1200 ceramics (IIRC) for field dressing game (after full edge refinement). I think the tooth thing is fine for vegetables and fibrous materials. I think if I was doing a filet knife I would go as refined as possible.
There is an advantage if you will be seeing this person regularly. You can try something and see what he thinks about the performance then go from there. Once you have the angle, it is not hard nor very time consuming to add a bit of tooth… or do a bit of stropping for them. That would give you a good learning opportunity and maybe get you a customer for life…[/quote]
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These numbers
5.4723.30
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40645
Handle Material: Nylon Fibrox
Handle Style: Partial Tang, Molded
Bolster: None
Edge Angle: 20 degrees
Attributes: optimal steel composition and processing creates a blade that is easy to sharpen but holds its edge
Origin: Switzerland
A. All Victorinox knives are high carbon, stainless, first grade, A-quality stainless steel, x 50 CrMo. They are tempered to a 55-56 HRC hardness for optimum edge retention.
Does not say much in the steel description, but with the hardness, I think I would stay at or close to the factory angle.
German steel. Very stain resistant. Other than that not much to speak of. The cryptic X50CrMoV15 stands for 0.5% carbon, the other 15% is composed of 14% or 14.5% of Cr, some Mo and V. I don’t know who in German marketing came up with the idea to use X for Carbon, in periodic table it’s C. 0.5% C content means, by definition X50CrMoV15 isn’t a high carbon steel, despite of some marketing claims. In fact it has less C content compared to 440C steel. However, it’s plenty tough and resists corrosion well. If you don’t want to bother maintaining your knives this is a good choice. Except for the low edge holding ability of course. In the end, you end up sharpening it a lot more often, so low maintenance statement is really arguable. Used by Wusthof, Victorinox and others in their high end knives. Ref - X50CrMoV15 Steel Composition.
[color color=#0000ff]In other words… not much to write home about. Again, probably stay with the factory bevel. Try some different finishes for the guy and see what he likes.[/color]
[quote quote=“EamonMcGowan” post=11656]I think I would flip out if I had to do 20 knives in one day!:ohmy: :unsure: It takes me hours to do 4
knives [/quote]
With more time on the machine, you get faster, plus doing knives for customers is different than doing them for yourself or your friends. You don’t need to agonize over every last scratch. You can often just find the existing angle, match it and start with the 600# stones. From there, it’s easy to work through the 600#, 800# and 1000# diamonds and then finish with 20 or so strokes with the strops. The knife you’ll give back to your customer will be screaming sharp (depending on the angle of course) and far better than anything they’ve ever seen before. If you work the same venue often, you’ll get the knives back after a while and it’s really easy to touch them up, just a matter of a minute or two. At shows, I usually do 5-10 knives per hour if they’re not too badly damaged or wanting a major reprofile. I spend more time on knives sent in to the shop, often 20 minutes or more making sure they’re perfect.
[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11652]And I thought you wanted information on sharpening the Victorinox knife…???
Guess I wasn’t paying attention…
:evil: :P[/quote]
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You did a fine fine job - this is just what i was looking for.
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Handle Material: Nylon Fibrox
Handle Style: Partial Tang, Molded
Bolster: None
b)…Edge Angle: 20 degrees…
[quote quote=“EamonMcGowan” post=11656]I think I would flip out if I had to do 20 knives in one day!:ohmy: :unsure: It takes me hours to do 4
knives [/quote]
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here is the break down for 3 hours…
started off with 3 cheapies (china) and one weird hand chisel grown chopper - (did by hand - time).
then 5 henckels then the box of 6 henckels - did one big one(box out of box) and started on the santo. = 3 hours.
brought: 11 home and deliverd today.
[quote quote=“wickededge” post=11664][quote quote=“EamonMcGowan” post=11656]I think I would flip out if I had to do 20 knives in one day!:ohmy: :unsure: It takes me hours to do 4
knives [/quote]
With more time on the machine, you get faster, plus doing knives for customers is different than doing them for yourself or your friends. You don’t need to agonize over every last scratch. You can often just find the existing angle, match it and start with the 600# stones. From there, it’s easy to work through the 600#, 800# and 1000# diamonds and then finish with 20 or so strokes with the strops. The knife you’ll give back to your customer will be screaming sharp (depending on the angle of course) and far better than anything they’ve ever seen before. If you work the same venue often, you’ll get the knives back after a while and it’s really easy to touch them up, just a matter of a minute or two. At shows, I usually do 5-10 knives per hour if they’re not too badly damaged or wanting a major reprofile. I spend more time on knives sent in to the shop, often 20 minutes or more making sure they’re perfect.[/quote].
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we need to talk
thanks
So, what did you end up doing with the Victoinox blade?
How did it come out?
Customer reaction?
BTW. depending on how much you get into it, how much you charge for a critical customer… the steel information may be the most important piece of data that you can get…
[quote quote=“wickededge” post=11664][quote quote=“EamonMcGowan” post=11656]I think I would flip out if I had to do 20 knives in one day!:ohmy: :unsure: It takes me hours to do 4
knives [/quote]
With more time on the machine, you get faster, plus doing knives for customers is different than doing them for yourself or your friends. You don’t need to agonize over every last scratch. You can often just find the existing angle, match it and start with the 600# stones. From there, it’s easy to work through the 600#, 800# and 1000# diamonds and then finish with 20 or so strokes with the strops. The knife you’ll give back to your customer will be screaming sharp (depending on the angle of course) and far better than anything they’ve ever seen before. If you work the same venue often, you’ll get the knives back after a while and it’s really easy to touch them up, just a matter of a minute or two. At shows, I usually do 5-10 knives per hour if they’re not too badly damaged or wanting a major reprofile. I spend more time on knives sent in to the shop, often 20 minutes or more making sure they’re perfect.[/quote]
My set up is a little different as I live on a very popular gun range. All of my customers drop their knives off and come back a few days latter? I guess it gave me a chance to invest more time? I am going to take your suggestion to the bank! I will learn to start off with 600 and go from there.
[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11673]So, what did you end up doing with the Victoinox blade?
How did it come out?
Customer reaction?
BTW. depending on how much you get into it, how much you charge for a critical customer… the steel information may be the most important piece of data that you can get…[/quote].
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have all week to work on it - will return it to him next sat. at the fare…maybe like trade for yet another skinner he has - only guessing.
i think i will give it a try on the micro, B U T is there a rule of thumb on higher after first sharpening???..meaning if i complete at 17* where do i go from there? or say 18* - or does it make all that much difference?
[quote quote=“tuffybraithwaite” post=11691]i think i will give it a try on the micro, B U T is there a rule of thumb on higher after first sharpening???..meaning if i complete at 17* where do i go from there? or say 18* - or does it make all that much difference?
say 18* and then 21* or 22*[/quote]
My .02… depends on where I start from… for example 15 deg./side, I might go up 4-5 deg. but if I’m at 20 and want to do one, I’ll only go up 2-3 deg… otherwise it gets too high.
