Someone mentioned Maxamet steel recently and I realized that I’d picked up a little Spyderco Native with a Maxamet blade while I was at Blade Show this year:
I decided to take it camping with me for its first outing this weekend and I really fell in love with it. It’s light and slim and feels well constructed. The blade and handle design is very ergonomic and it’s really sharp right out of the box. I haven’t sharpened it yet since it’s performing so nicely. I was curious about the way it was sharpened so I examined it this morning. Here’s what I found:
It’s sharpened at 15.5° with a final angle of 16.5° (measured by goniometer and then verified in a sharpener with the DXL360S angle gauge) and has been stropped, creating a very uniform edge that is slightly convex. The grind marks are perpendicular to the edge and are easily visible to the naked eye.
At 200x magnification, it’s easy to see the curvature of the very edge. The convex portion of the bevel is 4µ wide. The scratches measure between 1µ and 5µ with the majority in the 3µ range.
The image above was adjusted within the microscope software to highlight the scratch pattern.
I really like the way this little knife is performing and I’m curious to learn how well this factory edge holds up. Anyone else have a Native or any other Spyderco knives in Maxamet?
Clay: Do you have a ZDP-189 blade you could compare it to? When you get around to replacing the factory bevel, that is.
The ZDP has almost no vanadium, while the Maxamet has 6%. On the other hand, the Maxamet has only 4.75% Chromium, while the ZDP has 20%. Both elements are used to increase hardness and toughness. Interesting. The Chromium likely is the element that drives the ZDP into being a stainless steel.
Spyderco used to post the hardness range for each of their knives, but I don’t see that anymore. I recall that they listed ZDP as being HRc-64. Any idea what the hardness is for your Maxamet?
I think Rockstead claims to harden their ZDP to HRc-67.
I do have Spyderco in ZDP, probably some others as well somewhere. I’ve never had much difficulty sharpening those and they are wonderfully hard. I think I have a Kershaw in ZDP, many things to cbwx34! It was easy to sharpen and polish and holds its edge really well. I’ll get my Spyderco in ZDP out for comparison when I go to sharpen this new little Native. Here’s what I found on KnifeNews.com:
Maxamet is made by Carpenter Technology, a company best known among steel snobs for its CTS-XHP, which made appearances on the Spyderco Techno, Slysz Bowie, and Chaparral among others. Maxamet’s distinguishing metallurgical characteristic is the high carbon content (2.15%) and the inclusion of 10% Tungsten. In an alloy, Tungsten contributes to the harden-ability, and with this much Tungsten it’s no surprise that Spyderco hardened Maxamet up to 67-68 RC. Few steels can approach this level of hardness while remaining usable in cutlery applications.
I have a Manix 2 light weight in Maxamet. Nice knife. It is light an carries well. I used it about a month with the factory edge which was quite sharp and stayed that way. I have not put it on the WE yet, but I did sharpen it using my Kalamazoo belt grinder. It took a different technique and considerably longer than most other knives. But I did get a decent edge on it. It would tree top arm hair. Anyway, that was around two months ago. It still will shave and I have been carrying it and using it about 90% of the time. I do the typical urban stuff with it, Opening boxes, breaking down boxes, cutting twine and rope, opening packaging, etc. It will still easily shave arm hair. Most of the knives that I carry in S30V or even S90v would have required sharpening at least a couple of times.
I think Spyderco hardens their Maxamet to 68/69. (maybe 67/68 still very hard).
Cliff Stamp writes on the Spyderco forum:
“Maxamet is an extreme alloy, for comparison, it is to 10V what S90V is to 420J2. Maxamet is used when HSS like M4 fail because they are too soft or wear too fast - just consider that for a matter of perspective”… “possessing properties intermediate between conventional high speed tool steels and cemented carbide.”
“Wear Resistance:
The wear resistance of Micro-Melt Maxamet alloy is better than that of conventional powder metal high speed steel grades and is equivalent to AISI A11 cold work powder metal tool steel.
A11 is K294 and CPM 10V”
One may notice that the chromium content is too low for it to be considered a stainless steel. I try to keep mine clean and wipe it down with a Tuff Glide cloth occasionally. It has some patina spots on it, but no sign of corrosion other than that. I really like this steel!! The Manix 2 light weight is a good platform for it too. It makes getting a knife in this steel actually affordable. They also made one of their “Mules” in the steel. I picked up one of those too. This makes an even cheaper way to get a blade of Maxamet to play with.
I got a Gen 3 (2016) WE recently. I am itching to get the time to chuck this thing up and see what kind of edge I can put on it with that.
I am interested to hear more about your experience with your knife in Maxamet Clay.
Welcome back. I also have the Manix 2, but in some other steel. I love the design of the blade but it doesn’t have great edge retention. I think I’d love it in Maxamet. So far, my Native has been excellent and I love the small size for a knife to carry to work. It’s cut everything I’ve asked of it so far, mostly cardboard and other packaging but I did use it to trim out some small saplings that were growing under my hammock. Even after doing that (in the dark, behind my back, in the rain, meaning that I probably drug it through the dirt, got it wet, put tons of lateral stress on it) it still shaves arm hair easily. I’m itching to sharpen it to see what kind of edge it will take, but I also want to wait it out to see how long the factory edge lasts. I suppose I could just cut a bunch of stuff until it stops shaving
I am very impressed by the results of the Maxamet and considering to get a knife in it. Hower, there are more “super steels” like M4, S90V (and S110V), M390 and ZDP-189.
What would you recommend, not only based on hardness and toughness, but also on daily use? (I assume that sharpening is not problem with the WE.)
I have been a bit of a steel junkie over the years. I have blades in all of the steels that you mention. The only two I would put in a class with Maxamet are S100V and ZDP-189. The Maxamet keeps me impressed with its edge retention though. Noticeably better than any of those.. at least for the single example that I have played with extensively. I really have not done anything with the mule… So far I have not had the chipping problems that I have had with both S110V and ZDP-189, which is a positive.
The one downside, and it is relative to your usage patterns and ability/desire to spend a little extra time in maintenance , is the corrosion resistance. If you want something that you can use, give it a quick wipe and put it in your pocket, maybe you are looking for something with a higher chromium content. Oh and it is expensive as well. I was looking at Spyderco knives just today. The same knives in S110V are listed about 30% cheaper than the Maxamet knives of the same model. No matter for me. I was curious to have first hand experience with this steel. I am glad that I bought this one.
All of the steels that you mention are great knife steels, and they all are super steels, they just are not quite a super as Maxamet. (from my limited experience and the specific design goals for this formulation.)
Thanks Phil. What is your experience with edge angles on ZDP-189? I am used to edge of +/- 15 degrees on my pocket knives (sometimes with a microbevel), but I also read ZDP-189 has a problem with that. And now I’ve delved into “super steels” for pocket knives, I also encounter Super Blue. Do you happen to know whether this is the same as Aogami Super, which is used a lot in kitchen knives (in mine, too) and I think is Japanese for super blue. This is truely a carbon steel, by the way.
I looked at my logs. I used 17 degrees for my ZDP knives. This is a compromise for sure, but seems to work. I still find that the primary edge degradation seems to be micro chipping. With 17 they are plenty sharp but seem to hold up a bit better. For the things I use pocket knives for 17 is fine.
I think the Aogami Super is the same steel as Super blue. It seems the names are used interchangeably. Honestly though, I have nothing in that steel and have not done extensive research on it. Spyderco did a mule in the steel and Called it Aogami Super Blue.
I did a quick search and found these notations:
Aogami Super Blue (AS) I think the AS is for Aogami Super.
Aogami Super (Blue Super) is Blue #1
Hope that helps. Though I know it is not definitive.
Here is another one… good info here. Scroll down. Apparently the Aogami is not necessarily the manufacturer.. but the Japanese name for the “blue paper” steel
I been reading this thread on the Maxamet knives. I did a search to see if there are any kitchen or chef’s knives made with that steel. I came across this knife in that search. I had not heard of this brand knife or this stainless steel before; rated at HRc 68-69. I have chef’s knives made of all the steels that were mentioned already, in earlier posts: ZDP-189, SG-2/R2, and, Aogami Super or Super Blue. This Hitachi made steel rates harder than all of those! At least on paper.
I just got it today. First thing I do these days is I take USB Microscope (250X) bevel edge photos of my new purchases “right out-of-the-box”. Then I use the knives a while to get a good feel for them. This is an interesting knife that I’ll write about in several of the current threads. It fits right in with several issues and themes we have going on in the WE Forum.
I’ve got a few Takeda knives in Super Blue and I love them. They’re wonderfully thin and agile, beautiful to look at and cut with. They’re also easy to sharpen and keep a very fine edge for a long time.
I took the Native in Maxamet as my only knife backpacking this weekend. I used it for regular package opening and also for a lot of whittling. The area where I camped has been receiving daily rain, often multiple times a day, so the available wood was all very wet. I needed to pare it down to reach the dry parts on a big bundle of sticks to get the fire started. I’m happy to report that after all that work, it still shaves arm hair, a little. I’ll keep working with it until it’ll no longer shave and then I’ll duplicate the edge that it initially had and see where it takes me.
Clay the " Super Blue" or also called “Aogami Super” is a little different than the hard stainless steels; HRc 62 and up. The Super Blue has a higher carbon content and the carbides molecules from what I understand are much smaller. I too have a couple Chef’s Knives made of this steel. I find them to be less reactive than High Carbon Steel that has nothing in it to prevent rusting or staining. The Super Blue Knives keep fairly well simply with washing and drying them well.
I have found the Super Blue to be the easiest and smoothest feeling hard steel I ever have sharpened. The feed back through the stones and the sound while sharpening it is smooth like silk. It probably sharpens smoother, faster, quieter and to a finer edge than any other steel I have experience with. A sharp Super Blue Steel Knife is the definition of “scary sharp”. Especially for a steel that’s rated HRc 64. I only wish it wasn’t reactive. I guess we can’t have everything.
Here’s an update on my Spyderco Native with Maxamet blade: I’m over 3 weeks into using it and it hasn’t been sharpened. It’s been on two overnight backpacking trips and has been my exclusive EDC this whole time. This past weekend I cleaned out my garage and used the knife quite a bit breaking down big boxes (I got some really great rolling tool chests that took a lifetime to assemble and which came excessively packaged in cardboard and foam), I cut a fair amount of sisal rope, taping and trimming the ends of different pieces. The knife performed exceptionally well. It’s barely shaving now and will only take a couple of forearm hairs if I try hard. I’ll go another week with it as an EDC and test it again before I go to resharpen it. Here’s a funny story about sisal rope:
A few years ago, a friend asked if their daughter could come by and do a Cutco presentation. Since she was a college kid doing her summer job, we agreed. She went on about how sharp the knives were because of their unique serration pattern and she asked me to get one of my knives. She then took a thick piece of sisal rope and push cut through it with her demo knife. It breezed right through. Then she challenged me to do the same. Easy peasy. My pocket knife went through it with almost no effort and the poor girl was utterly shocked and at a loss for words because that’s not supposed to happen This weekend, after all the heavy use my knife has endured, it still push cut through sisal rope with minimal effort. I guess the Cutco people are accustomed to everyone having VERY dull knives.
