Sigh…
(Clay, take on the challenge!)
Edit to add: On 7/28/17… he posted a correction, and added this to the original post…
So much misinformation on this video. The angle from the pivot changes but the angle in the edge is constant. He failed to understand the difference.
I’ll try do something.
Yeah, he clearly missed something. Shall we send him Anthony’s document? I wrote a blog about this, too.
He’s a visual guy, so I doubt he’ll bother to read so deep about it. It’s also sad to see how many people got it wrong, the same way he did.
Here’s my attempt to illustrate the angle issue as simple as I can possibly do.
His error is that:
- He is trusting the angle measurement of the devise itself instead of using an independent digital angle finder (like the angle cube)
- He is mixing a side view (on the paper drawing) and a top view (when he measures) which is confusing.
So in my understanding, a straight line doesn’t change, and an arc in perfect match with the arms rotation wouldn’t change, it’s when you vary from either of these two that the angle changes can occur. This is why we have ‘finding the sweet spot’ issues, because the further you move the knife’s blade back in the vise or the more you tilt the tip downward (with the handle up in the air) on most knives this affects the way the belly interacts with the arc of the rod arms and thus the angle can increase or decrease there.
I actually emailed him after the first video he did… and he must have read it, 'cause he referenced it in the above video… then dismissed it as people not knowing what they’re talking about.
Snecx, your video is good, and I understand it… problem is, a person who believes that the angle does change, will interpret it as, by not rotating the angle gauge, you’re moving the pivot down the edge (like it’s on a rail). I know that’s not the case, but am betting that’s the response.
I really think Clay should contact him… since it might be beneficial to get it straight from the source… especially a source he says is wrong. I doubt he’s gonna listen to anyone else. If he actually ground a little on that steel he put in for the demo… he’d see there’s not a 6˚ difference.
Oh well, time will tell I suppose…
Instead of relying on a built in angle devise, he needs to use an angle cube perpendicular to the edge. The angle not changing is fact, it’s not just theory at this point.
Here are 2 relevant posts, one from Clay verifying angles on a Laser Goniometer and the other from you Curtis, in a very practical demonstration.
https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/forums/topic/advanced-alignment-guide/page/5/#post-30907
https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/forums/topic/advanced-alignment-guide/page/6/#post-31084
That picture was for a different test, but does support the point (man, you keep stuff better than I do haha).
This picture is what I did, when I didn’t believe it (I sent it to him too)…
… apparently, he wasn’t swayed.
I added a quick comment on his video and will work tomorrow to create a 3D model, a physical model and also show him on one of our units. With the DXL360S angle gauge (thanks TCMeyer) you can show it easily without having to ensure the gauge is perpendicular to the blade. It’s much easier to show than w/ the iGauging Angle Cube. Another way to prove it easily is to create wedges that are a set angle and show that they fit between the stone and the blade all along the length of the blade.
- I also added a comment to his video however I may have only embarrassed myself but hey I was honest
cbwx34, your demonstration is exactly what I was envisioning to prove this concept. Your perspective of view (photo) shows that the angle relative to the blade does not change. YES, the angle in the plane of the arm relative to to the work surface does change and I believe this is where he is confused.
snecx, your glass example is again an excellent demonstration of this angle remaining unchanged. How can either of these be confusing or discredited?? Well done guys!
Thanks. I actually came up with that when, after reading Clay’s initial post on this a few years back, I didn’t believe him, and set out to prove him wrong. Between that and sharpening some long knives though… it’s evident what actually happens. Probably why I’ve kept an interest in it… just like the video shows, it seems counterintuitive to what you believe will happen to the angle… until you take a close look at it.
Be interesting to see what his response to Clay will be.
Snecx- that video is pretty brilliant. Unfortunately, the guy still thinks that the plane represented by the sheet of glass is imaginary and that the stone travels on some other plane… 
Can’t argue with a Laser Goniometer verification…well you can, but it’s arguing with reality 
Humans have a hard time accepting empirical data that stand in direct opposition to intuition and preconceived notions. Thankfully, this is a case where no one is harmed by his refusal to accept that he’s wrong. Oh well.
NO kidding! I think the challenge is more difficult than we’ve all expected. I hope you’ll be able to bust this myth once and for all. Good luck!
Hey guys,
Here’s this response from Jeremy that authored the video:
Hello Clay,I now know that I am wrong in that video. I was looking for answers and I finally had someone explain it to me in a simple manner.
I am going to release a new video, probably Wednesday or Thursday, explaining this and I will also probably sharpen a straight piece of steel to show that the edge bevel remains the same. It’s crazy how something so simple could be so over-thought. I was applying a three dimensional example to a two dimensional reality. I get where I was off now.
The good thing is; that video got a lot of comments and interaction. I think when I release the follow up, there will be a lot of people that were convinced I was correct, seeing where we were wrong. I’m wondering if I should leave that video until Friday or Saturday even, as viewership is much higher on those days.
I sure appreciate you reaching out and helping me clear this up. I’ll also re-title the video the (non) Truth about knife sharpeners, after the other one comes out.
Cheers,
Jeremy
So, that’s a good win. I’m glad Curtis saw it and thanks Snecx for your awesome video. I think I’ll try to recreate it and add some animations in to show it off. For now, do you mind if I add your video to the Knowledge Base about the subject?
Nice work Clay and others! The facts have won the battle!
Wow! Excellent work, gentlemen. That is really great - and it sounds like not only did the YouTube Expert change his mind - no small feat - but that he will also do the right thing, and inform his viewership of all this.
That’s awesome! Hard to find people who are humble and accept they are wrong these days hehe, kudos to him!