I think there are two types of serrations, but they don’t necessarily have to do with the configuration of the serrations. It’s more a matter of how they’ll be used. In one type, the tips of the serration are used to aggressively bite into the objective material - for instance, when cutting heavy rope or seat belts. The other uses the tips of the serrations to protect the edge within the serrations (gullets ?), as is the case in serrated steak knives, where the edge will be pressed against extremely hard surfaces. In the first type, the tips need to be refreshed to enhance the aggressiveness. In the second, the edges within the serrations needs to be refreshed. Where a serrated knife will see both types of use, the sharpening process needs to address both areas.
I don’t think I made it clear that in the case of steak knives and similar applications, dull tips do not normally need to be sharpened, unless the serrations are very fine. In this case, I’d sharpen the knife as I would a non-serrated knife. If it’s a knife by a manufacturer who offers free sharpening, like Cutco, you could send it to the manufacturer, who will probably just send you a new one as a replacement, as was done for a friend whose knives I recently did. Her non-serrateds had obviously been sharpened, while her one serrated knife had obviously been replaced with a new one.
Hi Kyle,
I really like your Youtube video explaining your methodology, thanks for your support. Your method of keeping the same angles makes great sense, but I would like to respectfully point out (please correct me if I’m wrong) that you don’t sharpen any of those knives at separate and independent bevel angles, and you are technically reprofiling each one of them.
What you do is you check the edge angles on each side, then you decide on one fixed angle and you sharpen each knife at that same angle for both sides. It’s my understanding that’s not maintaining the same angles, that’s reprofiling the blade. You keep one side angle, but not the other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOV-DvS6wfc
I noticed this because I tried doing what you described, not what I saw you do in the video. I am a noob and have a Gen 3 Commercial edition sharpener, much like your Gen 3.
I wondered how am I going to maintain the current (different) edge angles if the sharpening arms don’t move much independently? The only independent angle adjustments you can make with a Gen 3 are with the micro adjusters, and that takes more time than by just choosing a close match and then sharpen both sides the same time like you are doing in the video.
I have already had several knives where the angles on the same blade do not match and it was very cumbersome and much more time consuming to try and match each angle rather than to just measure one side, pick an angle and then do both the same angle. To do each side individually and maintain their current angles, you have to adjust each micro adjuster AND use a leveling cube.
Like you, I want to be fast as possible with this and still do a quality job. Different people have a different needs for a WE, there’s pet knives where you can spend a lot of time and then there’s a commercial application where speed matters.
I agree the 1000 grit (stock finest grit with a system) is plenty sharp enough compared to what most knife users are used to. For utility knife users, they care about the sharpness and not the polish. The edge quality is probably still better than most belt sander/sharpeners too. However, it’s very difficult to compete for speed against a skilled belt/sander style sharpener who can sharpen a kitchen knife in a minute. It’s the old John Henry vs steam drilling machine story.
Can you please clarify for me, so that I am understanding it correctly as a noob, that what you are doing is finding a current angle for one of the edge sides and then sharpening both sides to that angle?
Because from reading all the literature here on the WE website and terms, etc. the functionality of the sharpener, etc. it sure seems to me that you are reprofiling the blades, maybe creating what you could term a “matching profile”, which would be a minimal form of reprofiling. Thanks -Russ
Hi Russ,
That’s a great observation. You’re correct, and I should have explained my process for checking angles a little better in the video. I perform the marker test and I check the angle on both sides. If one side of the knife requires a different sharpening angle than the other, I choose to match the angle to the more obtuse side. For instance, if the marker comes off at 21 degrees on the left and 23 degrees on the right, I will set my angle to 23 degrees. I do this for two reasons: 1. it’s much faster to reprofile to a wider angle than reprofile to a more acute angle. 2. The bevel on one side wont widen if I reprofile to the wider of the two angles, so I don’t risk damaging the knife and creating uneven looking bevels.
If I were using a sharpener that can be off-set from one side to the other, like the WE130 or the Wicked Edge GO, I would leave the angles as I found them. In the case of the above example and using a sharpener that can be offset, I would lock the angles in and sharpen at 21 on the left and 23 on the right. But, because I’m using a Gen 3, I match the wider of the two angles.
Hi Kyle:
If you’d like the ability to adjust to differences in angle from one side to the other on your Gen 3 Pro, you might try the micro-adjust parts I sent to Clay for him to test. If I recall correctly, on my Gen 3 Pro, I was able to get +/- 2.5 degrees by adjusting one relative to the other. From adjusted all the way in on one side and all the way out on the other, I could reach as much as 5 degrees difference.
You guys that do this as a primary business or as a part time way to make extra cash. How did you get started? How long did it take? What are some tips to help out a new guy wanting to make it a primary business?
Kenneth the best Information we have about running a business with Just the “Wicked Edge” Is right in this thread with “kyle Kaplan’s” teachings.
I have a knife sharpening business but I should really call it a hobby because it takes me to long to get the edge the way I want it for the customer.
I have Powered sharpening equipment, but I keep going back to the “Wicked Edge” because the edge quality is reliable.
If I do what I am supposed to do, after a while, I get what I am supposed to get with the “Wicked Edge”.
I am interested in how others got their name and services out there. How long it took them to get a base clientele etc.
One example I’m aware of said he started by setting up a web site advertising his services. Most of his jobs were managed by mail. Meaning that customers shipped their knives to him and he returned them via same way. I gathered that happy customers spread the word.
Another fellow set up a table at flea markets and such. He also worked a deal to regularly set up a booth at a Sonoma Williams (?) store. This way he reaches customers who would never know where to look. Cliff Curry does something similar, I think in Hawaii. Check out his videos on Youtube, under Curry Custom Cutlery. He shares a lot on what he does.
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse.
First, you need to know how to sharpen all kinds, sizes and styles of knives very well, and with confidence. Then others close to you will benefit from your skill when you sharpen their knives, for them. Within a short time, through word of mouth, and the recommendations from those who you sharpened for, there will become a growing interest and demand for your skills and services if the results of your efforts are truly good, enjoyed and trusted.
For the business minded person, they’ll recognize this and take advantage of this opportunity. These kinds of businesses just seem to start with you seeing the hint of suggestion that there’s enough desire and demand for your skills and services to build a business out of a hobby. The businessman instinctively grabs the opportunity and runs with it. If you are a businessman it will come together. At that point, to utilize tried and true business development practices like advertising comes into play.
What I’m saying is you’ll recognize there is an opportunity to sharpen as a business by the requests for your sharpening services, by friends and family. Those who ask you to sharpen their knives, time and time again, who are happy with the results, will offer and want to pay you for your services. They’ll tell you “you should make a business out of this”. They’ll freely tell their friends and families about your services. It grows from there. By word of mouth. If your a businessman you’ll know how to make it go.
If you’re finding yourself busy, sharpening so many knives that you are able to charge for your services and get paid without any hesitancy. It’s obvious you have more then just a hobby, there. You definitely have the makings of a business.
I personally just created a Google Business page and began getting hits immediately, they bugged the heck out of me for months wanting me to enhance it and spend money but I just kept ignoring them and the calls finally ceased. But my advice is to not bite off more than you can chew probably for the first year. Get really good at, for example, kitchen knives. Then create your business but only provide a service for those and nothing else. Then, in the meantime, be working at becoming proficient on, for example, pocket and sheath knives. I remember a couple of years ago, I was having my bathroom shower and floor re-tiled and asked the workers if they would bring in their folders or sheath knives so I could practice on them. They were thrilled and I did a pretty good job on them which built my confidence and soon after that, I began advertising it.
Your main objective should be providing quality service and not damage the product. Once the damage is done, it might not be able to be repaired and here you are, paying for a new knife instead of making money.
IMO: For me, there would be no “and not damage” in the equation! If there was any chance I lacked the skill, ability or confidence to sharpen any knives presented to me well, without inflicting damage to them, I’d stay out of the sharpening business, just then. I’d keep practicing with family, friends and neighbors. Gratis.
You know I said that because it happened to me, right? Taught me to use a lot of masking tape. Lesson learned.
Another point I wanted to make is that people don’t understand our craft and I’ll give you an example of what happened today. I get up this morning and some guy who I didn’t know had e-mailed me last night saying that he needed three kitchen knives he wanted sharpened so right away I’m in the dark regarding what kind of knife it is and how much blade am I looking at not to mention any damage to it. I requested a picture of the knives and pretty much immediately he responds. There are what appears to be two 10" chef’s knives and one 8" Sandoku. So I told him to let me know if he wanted to bring them to me or meet me somewhere today since I was headed out anyway. He wants to know how much I would charge and I said $45 for all three which I think is reasonable for the amount of time I was going to put into it but you know what? He never responded which surprised me because really, his only option is to send them back to the factory since I’m pretty much the only game in town.
So I’m not sure if people think that I’ve got a belt grinder where I can just knock these knives out in a matter of minutes and I’m making a killing at $15/knife for what. That’s the thing about e-mail and text, you can’t really discuss the conditions with the worst case scenario probably being the most expensive. I had a guy give me a chef’s knife about a year ago and had a huge chip in it which I explained right up front that to remove that chip and basically grind it completely out resulting in a new knife would be fairly expensive.
Then you have the trolls, those are weirdos who will arrange to drop off their knives and never show up. And I had a guy who said he had 125 knives to be sharpened but wanted me to create some sort of method so he could charge them on a credit card.
So this being my very first business venture has been interesting, that’s for sure. You never know the intent of the person on the other end of the phone line LOL
When I first started sharpening knives, I began charging around $5 per knife, but as I gained more experience and invested in better equipment, I bumped it up to $10-$15, depending on the size and condition of the knife. Prices really depend on your location and the demand for such services.
Regarding getting the word out, I’d recommend starting with social media advertising. Most of my clients come from Facebook ads I run. I’ve been using the AdSpy software to peek at competitors’ ad campaigns that are currently live. It’s quite handy to grasp what strategies they’re implementing and to fine-tune my own campaigns accordingly.
Hi Kyle.
just watched your YouTube vid on sharpening in under four minutes. I’m new to sharpening… brand new. I learned quite a bit in just that one video alone. I purchased a gen 3 pro and I’m waiting on it to be delivered so I’m looking for all the tips and knowledge I can get. I’m starting from scratch here. I subscribed to your channel as well. I look forward to watching more of your vids to gain more knowledge as my skill set is nada right now however, I will get to a level that I’m satisfied with my skills. Do you have a video explaining how much pressure to apply in a way you can convey to the newest of sharpeners? Thanks for the vids.
-Mike
PS… I lived out in Santa Fe myself for a few years and moved back to NY where I’m from somewhat recently.