My first knife on the 5K/10K Choseras

Legacy Forum Archive techniques-and-sharpening-strategies
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The Chosera 5K and 10K stones had arrived some time ago and finally I was ready to use them. Would they really make the edge sharper than the stock stones?

The knife I was going to sharpen was a Laguiole knife custom made by Renaud Aubry for a bunch of Dutch knife nuts. It had a blade of 12C27 steel with a hardness of 57-58 HRC.

I started with the usual progression of 100-200-400-600-800-1000 grit stock diamond stones followed by the 1200 and 1600 grit stock ceramic stones. I sharpened the edge at 20 degrees per side.

Below is a picture of the edge after the 1600 grit stones.

Then it was time to use the Choseras. They are thicker than the stock stones, so I needed an angle cube to mount them properly. I was prepared for some fiddling, but this really was a breeze. I also did not need change the rod joints by 90 degrees, something I had seen some people do.

One of the reasons (although not the main reason) I initially chose the Wicked Edge over the Edge Pro was that the stock stones could be used dry. However, the Choseras are water stones. So I soaked them for 5 minutes and made sure I kept them wet during sharpening. Fortunately, it did not become a water bath: the Choseras need only a minimal amount of water and as soon as soon as the water or the slurry drips off, you have used too much water. (Obviously it did drip off the first time I used them, but I quickly learned :slight_smile: .)

Sharpening using the Choseras was easy, not really different from the stock stones. Although they do feel smooth, very smooth.

After the 5K Chosera stones, the edge had become only slightly sharper than after the 1600 ceramics: it did push cut paper, but the edges of the cut were slightly ragged. Not surprising, since the 5K Choseras rank about the same on the grit comparison chart as the 1600 ceramics. Below is the result.

However, after the 10K Chosera stones, the edge was truly sharp. It shaved arm hair without any problem and did push cut paper like butter. (I am saying push cut here, no cheating by secretly slicing!) Below is the result.

Would it shave my face? I tried. Well, it would. But only with a lot of effort. So I stropped the edge using 1 micron diamond spray on balsa, followed by 0.5 micron spray on balsa. I finished using plain top grain leather strops. See below. Ain’t she smooth?

The knife did not yet pass the hanging hair test. But would it shave well? I tried again… And yes, it shaved my beard!

When I started sharpening seriously a few months ago, my mission was to get a knife so sharp I could shave with it. Mission accomplished! :smiley:

my blogSee for the full series of pictures.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that the Choseras produce a beautiful mirror edge.

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thanks mark! looks good! hey, do me a favor and try finishing up the edge on a CBN strop… it seems to be a smoother shave to me, see what you think :slight_smile:

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Thanks, Josh. The knife could use a touch-up for a truly smooth shave. Have you got any experience with CBN? Which one(s) would you recommend?

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Looks good, Mark!!! :woohoo:

Once you get used to how light the Chosera paddles are compared to the diamonds, you can lighten up even more on the touch for a better shave!

Since we started the SOTD thread, here’s Josh’s razor (aka razoredgeknives). It’s a Joseph Rodgers HOllow Ground that he first sharpened, and it shaved great!

I then sharpened it on the WEPS @ 16-16.1 degrees using the WEPS 800/1K Diamonds, the Chosera 800, 2K, 5K, and 10K Stones, and finishing on the .125 CBN by Ken Schwartz, and plain leather. It passed the HHT.

The shave was exactly what I expected - a little “strong” but smooth and clean!

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Thanks Tom! Can’t wait to get it back! :cheer:

Mark, I was just wondering if you want to, try finishing it on the CBN and compare the shave to the diamond finish. The reason why I’m interested in your experience with this is in light of a conversation which Tom and I had in which he advised that the CBN would give a much “smoother” shave vs. a diamond finish. When I went straight from the 10k choseras to the .125 CBN, it did seem to confirm this… Was just curious as to what you thought as well. I don’t have any experience w/ other grit sized CBN yet, although I would love to at some point.

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Nice picture, Tom! I’ll also have to try to turn the rod joints by 90 degrees to see what extra freedom you get.

Dumb question… Why would you use a guided angle sharpening system for a knife that has its own guided angle system built in, like a straight razor?

I’ll try to see what I can do to further sharpen the edge, Josh. From reading on the Internet, it seems as if people like finishing their razors with stropping compounds in the area of 0.3 - 0.125 micron and that hair-popping starts in that region too. I haven’t got any CBN at hand, but still some diamond spray and a lot of Dovo green paste :-).

Just for my information: what is a “smooth” finish (versus a diamond finish) and what is a “strong” shave? I know what it feels like when a straight razor or a knife tries to drag hairs or when it scrapes my skin. But those words sound a bit like the words in which wine nuts describe their wine tastes :mrgreen: .

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“Strong” for me means the grip of the edge - the Chosera edge is a little toothy, or sharp feeling because of the polished groove effect, and when you strop with the CBN, you continue to polish the grooves more, leaving more of a super clean 10K edge. It does not mean “rough” in any way, and my face barely tingled with the aftershave. What I like about a stronger shave is the fact that I do need to control the razor - IOW, it won’t move if I don’t actively move it.

I do generally prefer a slightly more refined edge before hitting the CBN, which dials down the “strong” a little more.

The diamond edge, while very smooth and comfortable, is more “grainy” to me, as you can feel each individual hair being severed. I do like this feel, but I tend to have a bit more aftershave burn from the diamond finish - that is just a personal thing since I have the luxury of choosing.

FWIW, Chromium oxide is too “slick” for me - no resistance and I feel a slight lack of control as it glides through the hairs. Lot’s of guys love Chromium Oxide, but it makes me cringe - go figure!

For the sharpening, one thing I should’ve done on the Razor was to reposition the screws to secure on the top on the wings! Oh well…

In general, I do hone razors directly on the stones, but the reason I used the WEPS and set angles off the spine was because this was for Josh (razoredgeknives) and he wanted to see if this was a viable solution for sharpening/honing razors for his customers. Bottom line, it works, but there are some caveats, the main one being controlling the pressure. One thing that will need more looking into is the type of razor/steel - Dovos, which litter the straight razor world, won’t fair nearly was well as the good quality vintage razors like the Rodgers. But that’s another topic :smiley:

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Now that Tom answered your other question, lol, I will answer this one. Oh, I hope I didn’t come across in the wrong way… I actually sent my razor to Tom to sharpen up so I could feel what an edge should feel like to shave with. I have always sharpened my own razors and was curious as to other results.

Well, the reason I wanted to use the WE was “just because”, lol. I believe it can be done, it just seems that it must be done very carefully. I didn’t want to go out and invest in a whole new set of water stones just for razor honing but, instead, wanted to use my WEPS stones as “dual purpose.” Now, Tom actually informed me that he normally sharpens up a straight by holding the chosera (most of the time on a EP mount) in one hand, and then sets his razor on top of it and does actually use the built in guide of the razor’s spine. I just wanted to see if it can be done on the WEPS. :slight_smile:

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Yesterday I did my second knife on the Choseras, a Benchmade 940 Osborne. It is one of my favourite EDC’s. Man, that knife got wickedly sharp again.

After the 5K/10K Choseras I stropped it again using 1 micron diamond spray and 0.5 micron spray. And then I shaved again, this time a full face shave!

It became quite a bloody affair. It took me four cuts to realize why. When I had stabbed myself for the fourth time, this time under the chin, I realized the knife also has a very sharp tip :mrgreen: .

You can read the full sharpening story and see the pictures here.

Update: afterwards I found out I still had some 0.125 micron CBN spray. I stropped the 940 with it on balsa. Unfortunately the edge did not pop hairs and it also did not feel much smoother. Could this be because the 0.125 micron CBN particles were hiding in the balsa? I have had tips before not to use anything smaller than 0.5 micron on balsa.

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Yeah, you got to watch out for those tips!!!

I got a couple of streaks on my first Kamisori shave - the corner was square. I fixed it by rounding the tip on the next honing session! B)

Now we need a video, or it didn’t happen!