I bought a set of Henckels 5-Stars back in 1998 and had great results but they really needed to be replaced as the uniformity of the blade had changed with all of the material removed over the years. So I bought my wife a 6” chef’s knife for starters in November 2018. The steel is X 50 CR MO V 15 which I understand has a Rockwell hardness of around 58. Unfortunately, I’m seeing consistent chipping on this knife whereas I had zero on my previous 5-Stars. So basically in a little more than a year, I’m going to have to remove more material in order to apex the blade and get rid of the chips. I’m already beginning to see a bow in the blade just forward of the bolster due to all the sharpening required. My wife doesn’t do anymore than cut vegetables with it so what in the heck is happening?
There’s a school of thought that the edge will have damaged/fatigued metal if overheated during sharpening eg factory belt sanding. Until it is removed, there will be continuing problems. Flattening the edge before sharpening helps to remove the bad metal.
If the knife is treated well (not using a glass or stone cutting surface) and they look like this then I agree that the heat treatment is poor.
Nothing similar to that has ever been used. Only butcher block for vegetables and plastic for meats.
I have a Japanese knife that chips really badly and befuddled me for a while. It has an extremely low bevel angle. It came from the manufacturer at about 6 dps. I sharpened it at about 8-10 dps, but it continued to chip badly. Eventually I figured it out. When I cut crusty artisanal breads, I’d apply a lot of force to break through the bottom crust. When the edge slammed into the cutting board, the force was enough to break big chunks of steel from the edge. Some time later, I read a comment by a fellow on BLADEFORUMS.COM that he NEVER cuts bread with his Japanese knives. I was disappointed, as my Japanese knife cuts bread better than any other knives, but that was the answer. I switched my method to cutting down to the bottom crust, at which time I’d turn the loaf up on its side, where I could “saw” through the bottom crust. I still get a chip now and then, but never like before.
I’m not a fan of serrated blades and the only one I had (and old Wusthof) I re-purposed into a straight edge utility knife that now slices through “any” bread very easily a lot easier than the serrated one ever did.
Most of the serrations had been sharpened away by my using a top of the line Chefs Choice sharpener because thats what I used before learning of the WE system. These actually put on a great sharp edge very quickly, but I’d hate to look at that edge under a Digital Microscope.
But my first thoughts when I read TC’s post was why doesn’t he just get a cheap serrated bread knife for cutting bread? I would never think of ever using my Shun Premiers or my Yu Kurosaki knife sets to “cut bread”!
I even recently bought a $35 Cuisinart electric knife that comes with two blades one being a bread knife for attacking bread. Another reason for my buying the electric knife is I still like to make fresh bread in a bread machine and I have the cutting rack that makes perfect slices very easily with an electric knife.
That is not a serrated knife edge, those are the undulations I’m referring to on the edge of my 6” chef’s knife. I’ll post more pics once I have my coffee and read the paper.
Here’s some more pics with a little more definition.
The damage I see that is almost reminiscent of a serrated edge in the close-up photo above is a badly rolled edge. You can see the steel with the half circle curves with the knife edge collapsed in the backround. The other damage forward of the solid bolstered spine appears the knife steel has folded or collapsed under the pressure of use.
This particular Henckel knife model is a lower grade, price point and quality knife made in Spain with German stainless steel compared to your original Henckel 5 star collection made of harder German SS. Either this steel is that much poorer in quality then your first knives, that much softer SS, or possibly the damage maybe due to just what tcmeyer and Organic suggested, that the heat treatment was bad or done improperly. Either way the results are the same. You have a soft steel knife edge that when sharpened will wear and fail easily, with use.
This knife looks to me as if it was previously sharpened with a method that the solid bolster inhibited the entire edge from being sharpened evenly and completely. Like it was sharpened in an electric sharpener that bottomed against the side of the bolster, short of reaching the entire blade.
Was it purchased used? Maybe an electric knife sharpener over heated the steel and ruined the heat treatment. Was it previously sharpened with your W.E. when you had clamping issues or sharpening issues where you couldn’t sharpen the entire knife edge evenly, thoroughly and equally well, because of the bolster?
Nope, bought it new off Amazon so it’s never been touched since then except by me with the WEPS. I think you’re all right, it’s damaged and I might as well just accept that fact. Amazing the difference of the other set of knives with the Friodur steel, night and day. Thanks all for the inputs and advice.
Has that knife been sharpened on an electric sharpener (maybe Chefs Choice?). In the second pic, it appears to have a BIG low spot in the blade about an inch and a half from the bolster A chefs knife should be flat in that portion of the blade.
As for the chips, heat treatment could certainly be the culprit. It looks like you are using the chipped portion of the blade to chop with. I’m just wondering if the heel portion of the blade would chip, if used for chopping. It may be that Mikedoh is correct in that factory sharpening caused it. If that is the case, it may be that only that portion of the blade was overheated.
So you’re saying you’ve had to remove all of that steel just in the last year (assuming that the blade was level with the bolster when new) because it has had damage like that repeatedly? I’d say it is time to add that one to the landfill and start over with a quality blade. It’s shameful that Henckles would put their branding on that sad excuse for a knife.
Yeah, that dip just forward of the bolster is totally from me sharpening it. It used to be completely flat but because it began losing it’s edge just a few weeks after purchase, I’ve found myself clamping it into the WEPS and touching it up starting with an 800-grit stone several times. It has never been on a grinding belt or a Chef’s Choice.
I agree with you Organic, it’s turned out to be a pretty pitiful knife. I’m really surprised they would release something as poor of a quality as this, I ripped them a new one on the Amazon website though even though it had 4.5 stars when I purchased it.
If you’re considering a replacement and you are still thinking it will be mostly used for vegetables then I suggest considering some of the Japanese blades. They’re a bit more brittle than European style knives (because they are thin and hard) but they perform beautifully.
[quote quote=53249]I bought a set of Henckels 5-Stars back in 1998 and had great results but they really needed to be replaced as the uniformity of the blade had changed with all of the material removed over the years. …
I’m already beginning to see a bow in the blade just forward of the bolster due to all the sharpening required. …
Yeah, that dip just forward of the bolster is totally from me sharpening it. It used to be completely flat …[/quote]
This is bad technique. You should not be making a bow like that as you sharpen. Likely your 1998 set could be restored to working order with a little work. You can reduce the bolster as needed to preserve the profile of the knife. When the behind-the-edge thickness is too large you can thin the knife. After repeated thinning and tip repair you can grind some off of the back of the handle to restore balance.
You have put into the blade a “recurve” near the bolster which renders IMO the knife useless as a good performing kitchen knife because it can’t cut food down to the board in that area. I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know as I’ve done this a few times myself on expensive folding knives.
You have a few choices. When I have put in a recurve into an expensive blade it kills off their future resale values for me so I had the company replace the blade each time. Before we get a decent amount of sharpening time under our belts we make mistakes. Recurves appear as we focus too much time on one area of the blade rather than use full strokes down the blade length (or for longer blades it can be done in sections).
Another choice is to send it into the company and have them restore the blade for you chalking the cost up to lessened learned. Many companies don’t charge to re-sharpen. They only charge the shipping back to you. I’d say all of the brands I own currently have lifetime free sharpening.
If you don’t own them already by the 50/80 git set. They are cheaper than most of WE’s other stones. Use the 50 to re-profile the blade getting rid of steel until the edge is straight again. The 50’s make fast work on a re-profile followed by the 80’s.
Or bring the blade to a friend that owns a belt grinder and that is the fastest way to re-profile then start with the 100/200’s and progress from there. For kitchen knives many only go to 800 for a working edge.
Lastly a tip using Amazon ratings: my Brother recently taught me this. Ratings can be skewed towards higher stars. So I used to only scroll through the negative ratings and wondered how I still got bagged so often with a crappy purchase that I had to waste my time sending it back. And I used to look towards the items with the most ratings figuring how bad can an item be with like 3,000 ratings or even 32,000 ratings??? He suggested was to scroll down on the left side of an item until you get to the window that says customer reviews (see pic) its by the % of people happy with their purchase.
I was replacing my food saver bag sealer. I looked at the latest food saver and it had over 5,000 reviews. But using the % window it shows 1 star = 16%, 2 stars = 4% and 3 star = 5%. Add all 3 together and thats 25% of buyers were one way or another unhappy with their purchase. Thats 1,000 people out of 5,000! I don’t like those odds so I moved on. As soon as you see 10% 1 stars thats already too high. 5% would be a better start.
So I went with the Koios unit for $64. It has 1=5%, 2 = 1%, and 3 = 3% or average of 9% people unhappy out of over 2,200. And with all this cheap Chinese products you have to expect a bunch of returns. But I like those odds better and I bought the Koios. Beautiful unit and much better than my old food saver that finally died.
Try averaging the 1, 2 and 3 ratings together on your next search on Amazon! They can skew positive ratings, but it’s harder to skew the negative averages.
For the hell of it I just checked the WE Go unit. star ratings 1 (lowest) = 4%, 2 = 5% and 3 = “0”% . . . Dems some sweet numbers on customer satisfaction . . . Congrats Clay!
That’s a great idea on those Amazon reviews, I’ll keep that in mind.
A lot of reviews on Amazon are totally fake, unfortunately. You can try to filter out some of these using Fakespot.com but I don’t trust that entirely either.
[quote quote=53340]
I bought a set of Henckels 5-Stars back in 1998 and had great results but they really needed to be replaced as the uniformity of the blade had changed with all of the material removed over the years. … I’m already beginning to see a bow in the blade just forward of the bolster due to all the sharpening required. … Yeah, that dip just forward of the bolster is totally from me sharpening it. It used to be completely flat …This is bad technique. You should not be making a bow like that as you sharpen. Likely your 1998 set could be restored to working order with a little work. You can reduce the bolster as needed to preserve the profile of the knife. When the behind-the-edge thickness is too large you can thin the knife. After repeated thinning and tip repair you can grind some off of the back of the handle to restore balance.[/quote]
Is there a video that you know of that instructs on how to grind that heel down in order to begin removing that curve?
This one looks right. Some people grind the bolster off with a spindle sander, like a big choil, which is fine if you like bolsterless knives. However it changes the feel substantially and those not accustomed to bolsterless knives may cut themselves.
