This is pretty esoteric, but still fun to do; I got to work on returning my sample blade to a nice, high polish, working with the 1000# diamonds, SF Ceramics, some lapping films and strops 14/10, 5/3.5, 1/.5 and .25/.125. I won’t bore with pictures from each phase right now, just the final edge:
This first image is of a nearly perfect edge, with one lone scratch, which was intriguing so I followed it out along the whole bevel to the shoulder. The edge is convexed from 16° to 20° and what I found interesting is how the highest point in the curved shoulder has the deepest, messiest scratches. What I mean by “highest point” is that there is a convex curve from the shoulder to the edge with some point in the middle being the highest point in the curve, or the furthest from a straight line that would run between the shoulder and the edge. Here are some shots traveling away from the edge toward the shoulder:
The scratches appear to be deepest in image “Scratch-C”, which would represent the highest point in the curve. I know this isn’t particularly helpful in producing a sharp edge, just interesting to see the effects of the abrasives on a convex edge.
Very interesting Clay! But in a way it makes sense to me at least…where is most of the metal removed when going from stones to strops? The edge and shoulder. Although you world think the high spot would have the most abrasion wear.
Clay has been showing us microphotos in sets of three; the edge, the bevel and the shoulder. The intent being to better understand the effects of the abrasive across the entire width of the bevel. In this case, he’s showing us a photo of an edge he had polished out to a high degree, but then he noticed a scratch and decided to take photos of that scratch as his 2000X 'scope moved away from the edge. It might have been less confusing if the photos had been inverted.
Sometimes Bill you make the most poignant comments, thank you! I’d been working on another thread (https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/forums/topic/strops-or-stones/) started by dulledge , having a conversation running with some of the guys about how the ceramic stones work versus the diamond plates and diamond lapping films. The guys made recommendations about the order I should use the stones/strops/films to investigate what was most efficient and then I photographed the results under the microscope at 2000x. I think it was a great learning opportunity for me. Anyway, when I started this new thread, I was continuing the conversation in my mind and never paused to think that someone who hadn’t followed that conversation would have no idea what I was talking about! Thanks for pointing it out.
As Tom said, the pics should be in a different order. The top pic show the edge of the edge. The bevel is very smooth, but there is one scratch. The other pics show more parts of the scratch. On the third pic, named Scratch-C you see the scratch is the deepest. Clay explained that the edge is convex and I think Josh (RazorEdgeKnives) gave a good explanation of why the scratch is the deepest on the third pic, where the “highest point” of the bevel is. I am not sure which parts of the bevel the pics called Scratch-B and Scratch-D show.
Clay uses quite a different microscope than us, mortals. Much better images and a magnification of 2000x (yes, 2000 ). With that in mind it is even more remarkable the the majority of the bevel looks so smooth. Stropping really works.
The magnification of these images is very high, so it’s hard to know what you’re seeing. I’ve added some labels to one of the images so you can see it better:
[attachment file=“Scratch-A—Labelled.jpg”]
The scratch measures 2.5µ at its widest in this picture and we’re only looking at about 55µ (0.002") of blade width from the edge. The other images show different sections of the bevel going back from the edge toward the shoulder. If the image section of blade being shown is using all the height of the image, then you’re looking at a section that is roughly 80µ (0.003") wide.
Well said Bill, thanks for spelling it out. I definitely can get very narrowly focused once my geek button has been pressed by a good question, which is what happened in the Stones vs. Strops thread and carried over here.
Bill, I’m thinking more about your comments and it’s making me realize that I tend to only focus on the forum visitors that I can see, not on all the ones who are present but remain quiet. Thanks for bringing it up!
Personally I love to see/learn anything I can about abrasives or how they interact with the edge especially on a microscopic level as I find it fascinating. Mostly it comes into okay for me in 2 areas.
A perfect scratch free mirror edge (which people want and pay for)
Straight razor honing - microscopic scratches play a large roll here in how smooth the shave is.
I think in general studies that clay has done tend to draw people in for discussion and reading, as mark pointed out as well.
Active forums often discuss differences like Canon vs Nikon or Mustang vs Camaro. These discussions generate a lot of flames and traffic. WE forum has one brand products and, I guess, it is why many here ask beginners’ questions and then gone. Also I suspect that high traffic forums employ sockpuppet accounts, shill, trolling, flamebait, etc. Which photo gear do you have, BTW?
This is a niche forum, limited to a very narrow group of participants. Of that narrow group, I suspect only a small percentage are comfortable expressing themselves in a written format. I’m sure that any comparable forum will have the same type of participation. I regularly communicate with a group of about 240 high school classmate individuals and I am very frequently struck by the fact that most of them simply cannot write more than a single sentence without revealing their inability to write coherently. This includes people I consider to be reasonably intelligent and well educated. They are intelligent enough to recognize their limitations and are therefor reticent in expressing themselves in such a public forum. As a result, those of us who are comfortable in such a forum are inclined to dominate the conversation.
Yes, we have a group of silent participants. Just because they choose not to join in the debate doesn’t mean that they are not gleaning the most from the conversation. If we decided to just shut up for a while, I doubt this would draw them out of their shells. Meanwhile, I am content to share the bandwidth with those few who are willing to converse with me.
I suspect that forums like corvetteforum.com (?) have a much larger demographic to draw from and are thus less likely to reveal their percentage of active participants.
Of course, I’d be delighted to have those less outspoken WEPS forum members ask for guidance. From feedback I’ve seen, there are a bunch of them who have found their way to higher and higher levels of expertise through their continued monitoring of this forum.
Speaking for myself, I am very glad that this is a niche forum, concentrating on the WE.
I can logon to bladeforums a couple of times a day and find 1000 or more new posts of which usualy just a couple are of interest for me but it takes a lot of time to find them. There is a reason that those forums have a special section for off-topic subjects and a lot of moderators who move posts to appropriate sections and things civil.
When I come to the WE forums, it is because I expect to find information specific to the WE and it will take just a moment to see if there are any subjects that are of interest for me. When I first bought the WE, it helped to to get to know the system and some beginner questions I had about it. Now I learn a lot from topics like the “stones or strops” topic and Clay’s pictures as they help me to decide which stones I want to buy.
Even though English is not my native language and I am certainly not a professional, just someone who is interested in sharpening, I have always felt very welcome and if a subject does not interest me I just skip it
Agreed 100%. In no other forum have I ever felt the sense of welcome and a sense of a common goal to encourage others to become better, to learn more, to challenge, to test & experiment.
Im not personally interested in photography, or food, or guns for that matter. If I was Id join a forum that felt comfortable to me for that. I also do belt sharpening, but you rarely here me talk about here, Ive found another forum to explore that area of interest to me. I personally believe that a “singleness of purpose” can be viewed as a strength, not a weakness.
In the 1.5yrs Ive been on this forum, starting from the first day I didnt know how to hold the paddles, Ive learned everything I know from this forum and the people on it that always encouraged and never discouraged me, and guided me when I needed it most. Thats what makes it special, the lack of put downs, or insults, or harsh words, or just any of that…
Once I got up to speed it has always since felt like I’ve been privileged to be here on a journey of mutual discovery. For that I am grateful and look forward to continuing to participate on this forum in the most positive way possible by paying it forward to the new guys and continuing to learn n grow in the science & art that is sharpening…together.
My company Maui Amusement has had a motto for the last 17yrs…“If it Aint Fun, We Dont Do it”. Its a cute saying, but it also has a deeper life meaning for myself. Its not meant to be used a cop out but a very real litmus test for how Im choosing to live my life. I sincerely hope this Forum will hang on to its “Happy Thought”.
Aloha, Cliff, aka CurryCustomCutlery, aka Wingnut808, aka Beanie, aka the Original Evil Elf
Not sure what to say about the above posts so I will ignore it. Clay, what microscope equipment are you using? I know you use dinolite, however, they don’t have anything over 900x. So I am assuming you’re using a eyepiece plug-in for a standard microscope. Is this accurate? I’m sure by now this is been posted somewhere else on the forum, but as I’m new, could you point me to where that is or the name of the post. Thanks!
I also fully agree with Cliff. I think the focus on the science of sharpening as it applies to common cutting tools and how they can be sharpened and improved with the Wicked Edge is perfect. I just admire all of the mods, discussion on blade angles for different blade materials and different uses, stone grit progressions, blade thinning, micro bevels etc. I think Clay’s microscope pictures are one of the many main attractions of this forum. I come here to learn about a fairly narrow subject (sharpening) with intelligent discussions. The best instructions for using a Wicked Edge are found reading this forum.
Socializing is quite low on the list of reasons I often read and sometimes participate in this forum; I feel this forum would lose value to many Wicked Edge owners if the balance became more of a social forum and less of a technical forum.
Could this “gouge” be a result of a larger diamond among the other diamonds? In the paste or the higher grit stone? Is contamination possible and just somehow being overlooked? Is it possible that a diamond became loose from the substraight and was wedged between two other diamonds on the plate resulting in a huge scratch from the shoulder to the blade?
See the attachment of missing diamond in the substraight
). With that in mind it is even more remarkable the the majority of the bevel looks so smooth. Stropping really works.
