John Gilbert

[John Gilbert]

I know for a fact I read a thread with tips on sharpening flat ground blades but I cant remember where for the life of me. I searched but didnt find what I was looking for.

Can someone point me to the thread OR give feedback on how best to sharpen mount flat ground blades in the jaws?

I finally used about 7 layers of blue painters tape on the very upper edge of the jaws. But I wonder if there is a better way to do it. I ended up getting pretty good results on my Strider SMF tanto. But it was still a little off.

Here you go:
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78:can-the-wicked-edge-sharpen-fully-flat-ground-blades&catid=31:general&Itemid=46

Worked great on my SMF CC too!

[John Gilbert]

You can also try spraying a little soapy water on the stones as you go to keep the diamonds exposed. It’s a little messy but helps speed things up when you’re trying to remove a lot of metal.

Thanks Clay!
That’s an interesting thought. I may give that a shot if I ever encounter something like this Outcast again.

I’ve been using a thin nylon gun cleaning brush to remove debris from the stones whenever I stop to inspect my progress. It seems to work quite well and isn’t very messy.

[John Gilbert]

John

Try doing circles with the WEPS 100 diamonds. It’s messy on the bevel, but it is even more aggressive than scrubbing in most cases. (scrubbing causes “ruts” for the diamonds, but changing the directions cuts grooves everywhere.)

If you get a burr after the circles, you can do some scrubbing to make real sure, then clean it all up with sweeping strokes before moving on the to the 200+ WEPS.

Thanks Tom!

Okay, I got my 50/80 grit diamonds last week and finally had some time to work on this over the last two days… I don’t know if its D2 in general or just this knife, but IT WAS A BEAR! I have no idea what the original angle was (I’d guess something like 35-45 degrees per side), and it STILL took me over 2 more hours to re-profile to 25 degrees per side and get a burr with the 50 grits!!! That’s 4 hrs total, OUCH!:pinch:

I worked in back-and-forth sweeps to keep the chewing to a minimum. Mr. Cheapguy and Tom from jendeindustries are right, if you use the 50/80 diamonds, it will take a bit of extra work with the 100/200 grits to smooth out the edge and scratches. I’ll take that trade any day on this steel.

I finally finished sharpening yesterday after a few more hours going through the other grits. Its not the prettiest, smoothest job I’ve done with the Wicked Edge, but my Outcast will now push-cut newspaper, and that’s good enough for this knife. Thank God no other knife I’ve tried yet has been as tough as this.

Just to restore my sanity, I re-profiled my veteran BM710 in ATS34 at 18 degrees in 30 minutes start to finish. :cheer:

[John Gilbert]

I did a little of both scrubbed from the grip to the tip, then a few sweeps. But did get a burr going in less than 20 or so strokes per side.

I need to put them back in the WE and rerun the knives with perhaps -1deg angle. The bottom of the original sharpenning is kinda ragged from the 50/80. The 50/80 is real aggressive. I ran 200 strokes with the 100grit, just to get it to smooth out, then 50 stroked on 200grit in a reverse direction and 50 more strokes forward. probably should have gone the whole 200 strokes with the 200grit.

However it still shows some “chewing” on on the bottom of the bevel.

Thank you for the feedback. I’ll make sure to watch for the “ragged” edge on the bottom, and make sure I allow enough time for smoothing things out with the 100/200 grit.

[John Gilbert]

I just got the 50/80s today. Used them on some knives in a cheap kitchen set. Just remember that when you get to the 100/200 stones to increase your number of passes, and change your stroke direction to break up and remove the deep scratches left from the 50/80s

Hi mr.cheapguy,
Got it! Did you scrub or sweep with the 50/80s?

I’m thinking I’ll use the 50/80s the way I normally do with the 100/200s. Both direction sweep with the 50, then one direction sweeps with the 80/100/200 and keep checking the scratch pattern with my 10x loupe.

Thanks for your tip!!

[John Gilbert]

Wow, that is strange! I have a dPX folder with a D2 tool steel blade and it took a beautiful edge with no such difficulty.
When you were seeking the burr, were you using a scrubbing, up and down motion with the paddles or a sweeping motion? In my experience, I have found that the up and down motion is the way to go when raising a burr,especially on tough steels. And I have also found that during this step is the only time when some fair pressure on the paddles when scrubbing, is a good thing.Try the scrubbing motion bearing down somewhat and see how that works for you. Please post what happens.

Good luck
Leo

Hi Leo,
I tried a combination of the sweeping (one direction, both directions)and then tried the scrubbing motion. Scrubbing just doesn’t seem to work for me… I cut my thumb for the second time trying it (so I guess I’m not coordinated enough to do this since I cut my thumb both times :blink: ) and then I broke the cardinal rule of working on things… I didn’t stop when I was getting frustrated with the lack of progress! I kept going and scrubbed a few nice big scratches into the blade coating in my “damn it this is gonna work” frenzy AARRGGGHH!!! :sick:

The Outcast is one huge, thick beast of a knife, and the biggest one I have in D2. Maybe I got a particularly hard tempered blade?!??!?

After I gave up, and took a break I did my Three Sisters Forge SuperBeast in S35VN with no problems. It’s very thick as well, (.190) but only took about 45min with sweeping strokes to get my burr. Man did she come out good!!!! :cheer:

I hope the 50/80 grit diamonds are in stock (haven’t heard back from CS yet) so I can give them a try. I will post an update when I get them and try them on the Outcast.

Thanks for your tips!!!

[John Gilbert]

Thanks for your patience Aaron.
Your filet knife can be done like any other knife. The Pro Pack will have the support rod in it to help keep the blade from flexing as you paddle the edge.Remember that you don’t need to use a lot of pressure with the diamond paddles or strops.
I have a really thin flexible knife blade that I sharpen a lot and what I do is do a count of 3 sweeps with one paddle while giving support to the blade along with the support rod in place, then switch and do three sweeps with the other paddle supporting once again with the other hand alongside the blade. Others may jump in and make other suggestions but in the end, the WEPS will do a fine job on your fillet knife.

Best regards
Leo

Thanks Leo, this went straight into my WEP Tips file. I’m going to try this method on a very slim boning knife I’ve been thinking about how to sharpen for a week!

[John Gilbert]

+1 on all of the above!

Factory edges are generally not very precise…

Also, check out this thread about stroke directions, which may help.

Thank you for the tip! I’m going to try the up/down motion followed by the sweeps to get my burr on my Buck!

[John Gilbert]

First of all there is no reason to wait for experience to sharpen with the WEPS…even if you make a mistake, it can be easily repaired with little negative consequence to the knife. I can remember feeling the same way when I first got mine.Scary!:woohoo: Second, the paddles up to 600 grit that you have right now, will do a credible job putting an edge on your blade while you wait for the 800-1000’s, a little toothy but sharp as the dickens.Third, to sharpen or touch up an edge to best effect, it is best to first build an original edge with the WEPS from scratch. It will give you amazing results and remember when you do that first edge with the rig,try clamping the knife as per the book and then be sure to get the burrs up on each side with the diamond scratches completely reaching the edge again, as per the instruction book. BTW, the best paddle movement when first raising those burrs is an up and down scrubbing stroke along the whole edge. Once you have the burrs up, just proceed through the grits to the 600’s using the sweeping strokes and then you can do some polishing and edge refining with the ceramics and finally go through the strops too.
You will be pleasantly surprised with the keenness of the edge you can produce. The 800/1000 paddles will only take an already very sharp edge and make it frighteningly sharp!:ohmy:
Give it a go!

Thanks Leo!

I think I’m still too much of a chicken to make the SMF my first non-easy-kitchen-knife-reprofile, but you’ve inspired me to keep learning now, so I am going to give it a go with an old Buck ultra light. I feel much more comfortable experimenting with it.

[John Gilbert]

Also, regarding your specific situation, with the stones hitting the edge on the heel, and not at the belly or tip, it is because it is common practice when hand sharpening (on stones or power tools), to rotate the knife up at the tip to create an even bevel width visually and dimensionally, but the angle has changed, most time because of the taper of the main grind, and the curve up to the tip, but on controlled angle systems the tip bevel is almost always a little wider than the heel bevel. Just physics – can’t change it, unless you hand sharpen. I have also heard that the change in angle was to strengthen the tip by making the angle wider and having more material behind the weakest part of the knife.

Aahh! It NEVER occurred to me that the angle would change from the heel to the belly and tip! That explains a lot about why I couldn’t work this out. I just didn’t expect that.

THANK YOU Sir!!!

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