What time is the Party?

[wickededge]

Anonymous wrote:

The ceramic… …Curious… would there be a difference between the glue on the ceramics as oppose to the glue on the Diamond stones?

The guys are right; tape for the diamond plates, glue for the ceramics. We’ve worked hard with 3M to find a tape for the ceramics without success. There are two issues: 1) the handles are made from polypropylene and very few adhesives like to stick to it 2) the ceramic stones are hydrophilic – they love water, suck it right up which eventually causes enough local pressure to separate the tape from the back side of the stone. So, we use a primer to seal the stones on the back side but it’s still not enough to keep the tape in place.

The tape is designed for industrial use, even architectural projects like holding up big signs and is very sheer resistant, so the lateral vibration from the ultrasonic tank probably won’t affect it too much whereas the glue doesn’t have very good sheer strength and will pop right off, especially in the presence of liquid and even more so in the presence of heat.

-Clay

[Anonymous]

Very insightful and specific. One of the big problems I see is navigation. This forum is set up like no other that I’ve seen in almost 30 years of inter net involvement, engineering and ownership.  This website has way too many individual forums.  44 forums???? for a fairly specific entity… Knife sharpening using a Wicked edge system. People try to find a nitche in which to post and find 44 similar forums, than can be condensed into four or five. A website like this needs filters, the first level of filter is the forum and it specificity… I posted my four or five suggestions for these forums. Once in a forum, for example

Under that forum many threads can be started, threads with direct ties to the forum name. threads can then be broken down into posts within that thread, and at any time a thread can be commented on and at any time a post can also be commented on, so you can select a forum , then go in and look at all of the threads under that forum, you can add a thread to that forum at any time, or comment on and existing thread,.

Most people go to recent threads first, to see what is new, but then go to specific forums, to add a new thread or read over threads that may have been miossed or comment on a thread or post that you now have time for.

ON other forums, people come for information, and do not contribute ( takers ) …. some take and never comment or thank the giver.. If no one comments or acknowledges a post or comment, people wont contribute. People who want to be involved also want some feedback. No one want to post to a no audience forum. Its like being a comedian in a club and no one laughs.. to the comedian, he would not want to go back to that club. If people spend the time to take pictures and upload them and offer good details and comments. He wont do that for long if no one comments on his efforts..

There has to be a communal personality that brings people back. Be it just an hello or good morning, and opportunity to let people know that there are people here.

Even the length of a comment has a sweet spot…. many people won’t read over a comment that is too wordy. Also if interaction on a forum requires too many key strokes, its a turn off. eg. posting attachments requires that you click on the attachment, it takes you to a new window, you view the attachment then have to click back to the forum posting and then click on the next attachment etc.  of course there are waya round everything you could run a split screen or tile open posts or forums, Ill sometime split screen two completely different forums IM monitoring at the same time, Ive run as many as four separate forums, that I am overseeing..

and forum that IM on  I don’t want to have to click to another window. I want all photos embedded in the actual forum ( no attachments ) and also embedded video feeds, that only require a click to start  but within that forum IM viewing.

when someone opens a forum and sees actual photographs, it grabs their attention, tumb nails do not… they are too small in most cases to be interesting, that’s why people open them.. but if the interest is not there they go somewhere else. a full size phot grabs attention instantly.

The end.

[Anonymous]

AS you can see, I can be a motor mouth. IM trying to promote and encourage others to post, and comment. This particular thread, and its topic name was designed to evoke some interest. To grab the attention of someone just cruising forums. So they come in, and find something they might want to comment on and  build a fun thread.

[Anonymous]

Clay just gave some insightful facts on the construction and research into both the diamond stone and ceramic stone attachment protocol. This is the kind of stuff that someone looking to use an ultra sonic cleaner might consider before immersing a ceramic block into a ultra sonic tank. IN my career as an automotive designer, we use a process called F.M.E. A. ( failure modes effect analysis ) to determine, problems and solutions. Cleaning stones, is a topic of interest to anyone using  W.E. Finding the best way to do it, is something of interest to everyone. It helps the consumer who buys a W.E. and also helps in the development of new products, and revisions to old ones.

Here is another example… I was going to buy the GenIII system , but could not see a way to separate the left side from the right side using a single lever actuation cam.  Only after seeing someone say their is a 2 degree adjustment located in the cam system which is accessed after 27 * degrees which is separate from the micro adjustments, did I realize that the GenIII can handle a 2* degree variation from one side to the other. Had I known that, I would have gone with that system. That information is not available within the Gen III product description.

[Mark76]

And now we have three topics in one thread 😀 . A good proof this forum isn’t dead.

About the ultrasonic cleaner: we’ve had topics on it before and my recollection of these (and confirmed by the post here) is that it is actually a pretty good way to clean your stones. Cleaning water stones is not difficult, since they wear. Diamond stones can be cleaned easily too, I usually use a toothbrush and with a cleaning agent and that works great. But if I’m lazy, I put them in the dishwasher (make sure you set the temperature to low, otherwise you run the risk of the diamond plates getting loose from the paddles). This is not recommended, since the base material may rust according to some sources. But it has never happened to me.

But cleaning the ceramic stones is difficult. Removing most of the sharpening dust, so the stones work properly, is not difficult. Most people recommend Barkeepers Friend, perhaps in combination with a toothbrush. Barkeepers Friend is not available where I live, so I use Cif. It also works, but it is probably less effective than Barkeepers Friend, which contains an acid. But in all cases your stones will remain pretty black.

So perhaps anyone who knows more about ultrasonic cleaners (Bill?) is willing to start a topic on them. What is their original purpose? How do they work in general and how effective are they on the different types of stones? And what are their prices and where do you get them? I wouldn’t want to pay too much for something simple like cleaning stones. Yet all stones need to be cleaned from time to time.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Mark76]

Then the 3M tape which is used not only for diamond stones, but also for the Chosera and Shapton stones (at least the ones I have). It has two great properties:

• At normal temperatures their adhesive power is very strong.
• If you put them in the dishwasher at a high temperature (in my machine: 65 degrees C or 150 degrees F), their adhesive power becomes low and you can easily remove the stones without breaking them. WE also provides the tape for a small fee, so you can use this to attach new stones or plates.

 

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Mark76]

Finally the ideas about making this forum more attractive again. You bring in good ideas, Bill.

One of the big problems I see is navigation. This forum is set up like no other that I’ve seen in almost 30 years of inter net involvement, engineering and ownership.  This website has way too many individual forums.  44 forums???? for a fairly specific entity… 

I agree. There is a reason this forum structure originated, and it was a good reason back then, but it no longer applies. One of the things we need to do, after the changes to the forum software have settled down, is to rationalize the forum structure. I think the basic forum structure is still quite good, but the more detailed sub-forums are superfluous and not adding anything anymore.

People who want to be involved also want some feedback.

Agreed. On the old forum we had a “thank you” system that made it very easy to leave feedback. AFAIK Chris is trying to implement this right now. It is a rather low level of feedback, but it worked to an extent. A good old “Nice post!” with a reason why you like it and perhaps a question obviously works much better.

There has to be a communal personality that brings people back. Be it just an hello or good morning, and opportunity to let people know that there are people here.

Also agreed and we all know who that personality is. But I also understand Clay has to run a business. This forum is of course one aspect of that, just like other social media (he posts on Twitter and Facebook as well). But it involves far more, of course. And AFAIK all product innovation and research comes from Clay himself. That alone could be a day job.

I want all photos embedded in the actual forum ( no attachments ) and also embedded video feeds, that only require a click to start. When someone opens a forum and sees actual photographs, it grabs their attention, tumb nails do not… they are too small in most cases to be interesting, that’s why people open them.. but if the interest is not there they go somewhere else.

Again agreed. Actually this forum makes this much easier than the old forum. There is a button “Add media” when you want to insert a photo or a video into a post. Then you can upload your own picture file or select from one of the ones already available. (Try it… there’s a huge library now already.) And then you can embed the photo or video in your post with the click of a button. I re-used the above picture by Josh of Chosera stones attached to paddles with the 3M tape in this way.

If you don’t want to host your pictures here, but on an external hosting service, like Photobucket (for example because you want to post the same picture on more than one forum), that’s also very easy. Go to, in this case, Photobucket, select the picture and click on “copy link” or whatever it is called. Then click on the right-most button in the button bar here when making a post (the button with the icon of a mountain and a sun) and insert the link in the “source” field of the new window that opens. Press “OK” and your photo is embedded.

I used this method to post the above image of an ultrasonic cleaner. It was not a photo from photobucket, but just one I found on the Web. In that case, just right-click the photograph, select “copy image source” and paste this into the “source” field after clicking the right-most button in the button bar here.

If there is a need for it, I am willing to post a more extensive explanation, with instructive pictures, but I think it is all pretty intuitive.

I agree with Bill that the third option, for uploading files, should not be used for photos or videos, since it causes the photos and videos not to be embedded. Another topic Bill started[/url] shows this quite clearly.

Finally one remark you made but which I cannot find back quickly anymore: this forum is still quite slow.

Again I agree. It’s by far not as bad as the old forum has been in times, but it could be much faster. If there is an easy way to improve the forum speed (I imagine it’s the contract you close with the hosting company: which hardware/virtual machine/SLA do you select) that could definitely an improvement.

 

 

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Anonymous]

This is my view and general comments on participation here, photos, ultra sonic cleaners, are just some of the topics tha should be part of a specific topic forum. like care and maintenance of your W.E. system and its components, including stones, strops and pastes.

under the forum called care and maintenance of your W.E. system. thread could be created . like this is how I clean my stones ( a single thread ) with a description and pictures… anyone could post a comment or question specific to cleaning stones, addressed at me in open forum, or posted as a general statement.

IM skirting the edge of trying to be perceived as someone trying to shape this forum…. I don’t want to do that.. so IM going to back off this forum and allow it to develop on its own… I’m not a know it all and do not want to be perceived to be that. I know what works in other forums,. Ive try to point out what isn’t working here. I’ve tried to do it tactfully.

Bill aka ET

[Mark76]

I sure understand that Bill. But if you ask me, please don’t back off completely. Your insights were refreshing and inspired me (and hopefully Clay) to think about the future of this forum.

If you want to post a topic on your ultrasonic cleaner, that’d be highly appreciated. And if you want to continue to think about and add to future discussions about the forum structure, that would also be highly appreciated. This forum needs some new energy 😀 .

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Alan]

^^^ Agreed ^^^

Alan

[Josh]

definitely needs some help. I think mostly if all the bugs and “user friendliness” could be worked out (i.e. simple – think google here, and readable) then that would help a lot.

[gregory mais]

here’s my 2 cents , new to the we system , just a few months , not new to sharpening , love the system (gen 2 pro ) i use a little soapy water with all my stones , except my arkansas black bench stone . found a few of my we stones fell off , both ceramic and diamond  , found gorilla super glue gel works real well to re-attach them . also use comet or ajax , or bar keepers to clean my ceramics , as far as the diamonds i just rinse them off after use and stand them vertically to dry  (after shaking them off) .                            p.s. i am always lurking about looking for tips and suggestions . and i look forward to the new forum to growing . thanks to all of you and your contributions

[Author]

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