New WE 120 – Vice Problem?

[FreeBlues]

I just got a WE 120 (2016 model), even got a personal demonstration/instruction from the factory (yeah, I live in Santa Fe), but I seem to have a problem on just one side.  Setting the angles to 15 degrees, the left side, the side with the tightening screws, works just fine, but on the right side I consistently hit the vice, not the blade.  I’ve tried raising and lowering the blade, repositioning the knife, tried a couple different knives, same result.  It’s almost like the vice in mis-aligned or something.  I can increase the angle and that works, but this system is supposed to go to 13 degrees per side, so I can’t see why 15 is causing problems – and only on the one side.

Can someone here help a newby out?  Is there something I’m doing wrong?

[Marc H]

Welcome FreeBlues,  I know this isn’t what you want to hear, you’ve reached the limit of your vice.  The angle numbers don’t matter when you’re bottoming out against the vice.  The specifications for the clamp angles are derived from a specified size and shaped knife that’s clamped in a specific manner.  Apparently the way or manner you’re clamping this knife is outside the physical clamping limits for your vice.  You have the choice to increase the angle to a point it no longer contacts the vice which is an angle greater then you wanted to profile your knife, or use an adapter such as WEPS Low Angle Adapter to raise the knife higher above the knife while it’s clamped in the LAA.  I don’t see it listed on the website at this time so you’ll need to contact them directly for availability.  Another option is a small knife adapter by Tormek.  In certain situations I have had helpful results using these two adapters.  They both hold the knife higher above the jaws allowing a lower profile angle without contacting the vice.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

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sksharp, wickededge

[Mark76]

Welcome, FeeBlues. I think Marc already gave all possibilities. Personally I’d increase he angle by one degree. That doesn’t matter much is practice. But if you really want 15 degrees on both sides I think the low angle adapter is you best bet.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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sksharp, David, wickededge, Marc H

[FreeBlues]

Thanks guys!  Here’s the thing, at least with this one specific knife.  It’s not particularly small (but it is cheap!), call it 4″ long and over 1″ wide.  I’m thinking either the blade itself is uneven, or when it sits in the vice it’s not exactly vertical.  On one side I can get 15 degree or less, but the other side and I hit the vice at 17 degrees.  But, rotating the knife 180 degrees, meaning the blade is facing me instead of the handle, I can now do the offending side at 15 degrees, but again hit the vice on the side that was no problem before.  So, somehow the knife is not sitting properly in the vice.

In the end I’m gonna give up on this knife.  I was really just using it for practice and to break in my stones, so no big deal.

I was able to get my little Spyderco Dragonfly to less than 15 degrees, and while I did not hit the edge of the vice, I did hit the lower  vice tightening screw.  Annoying!  Solved it by using only short, half strokes to stay above the screw, but this seems a design flaw.  Anyone try using s different tightening screw that sits more flush with the vice?

I also just got both a LAA and a Tormek.  The LAA on a brief attempt seemed to make things worse, not better.  Maybe I was using it incorrectly?  I’ve searched for some videos on how to set up and use these two add-ons, came up blank.  Anyone have some good links?

Otherwise, as perhaps others can relate, I’ve been sort of obsessed with getting perfect, well, wicked edges!

[sksharp]

The only thing I know of on the LAA is on You tube…just type “wicked edge low angle adapter”. It’s a review not a tutorial.

I have and use the LAA quite a bit without problems but every clamping attachment has limitations of course. With a knife 1 inch tall from spine to edge 15 degrees should be no problem with room to spare in the LAA. The vise you are using WE120 I believe has an issue as far as clamping a flat ground knife vertical. One side of the clamp is fixed and the floating side of the clamp moves out which moves the knife off center as well. This could be part of the issues you are having. The other issue clamping especially wide flat ground knives is with one side fixed and the other not the knife may not set completely vertical in the vise. If you have enough room you can use an angle gauge against the blade on both sides to determine if the blade is vertical. If it’s leaning one way or the other you can make adjustments with the angle on each side so you are putting the desired angle on your blade. Say the blade is leaning left, .5 deg. and you want to sharpen at 20 deg. Set the right side at 20.5 and the left side at 19.5 to compensate for the lean. This should help with keeping the bevels even. Lansky’s clamp has the same issue as the WE120 and is how I found the problem with that type of clamp.

I have the WE130 which is the same height as yours but with the gen 3 vise so it’s self centering and clamps most knives fairly vertical because both sides of the vise float and clamp via a cam system. There are quite a few knives that I can’t clamp below 17 or 18 deg. without the LAA however. If the blade is very small like small folders then the tormek has been the only way for me to do some of them especially below 20 deg. or so. In some cases I’ve used the tormek in the LAA adapter to get even lower angles. The LAA adapter has the same issue with clamping vertical and centered as the 120 clamp as well. If the blade is thick and/or flat ground adjustments can be made to achieve the proper angle if desired.

When tightening your clamp or LAA try to even the floating side of the clamp as much as possible. The top and bottom of the clamp should be fairly even, or the bottom should be kicked out, “slightly” wider than the top. This ensures that your clamping using the whole jaw to secure the blade.

I will say that even if the true sharpened angle on a blade is off by 1 or so deg. from side to side most of us are not going to be able to tell by using the knife. It can however cause the bevel to be slightly wider on one side of the blade.

Welcome FreeBlues and I hope some of this helps.

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[Mark76]

sksharp wrote:

One side of the clamp is fixed and the floating side of the clamp moves out which moves the knife off center as well. This could be part of the issues you are having.

Very dood point. This may well explain your issue. The newer clamps (self-centering) do not have this issue.

 

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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sksharp

[Marc H]

Mark76 wrote:

The newer clamps (self-centering) do not have this issue.

The newer cam action floating jaw vices don’t have the issue clamping full flat ground knives off center.  They do still have limitations of the minimum angle you can achieve before your stones bottom out on the vice or jaws.  This issue is always present.  The low angle adapters (LAA) and/or the Tormek  Jig are still your best work-around in this situation.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

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