How do you set your pricing?

[Ziggy]

Why do you charge more for folding knives?

Simply put, they take longer.
Steels are generally harder, studs need to come out, different problems with different knives, a whole range of things.

Still redoing my site as switching over to add scissors and just concentrate on Kitchen Knife sets, Scissors and Salon Shears, so have held off.

Actually thinking about dropping folders altogether.
Maybe even fixed blades.

Already took them off of the current site, though I still do them for past clients.

New pricing now going to $1.25 an inch for kitchen.
$8 for household scissors.
$12 for beveled grooming/barber/fabric shears.
$25 for convex salon shears.

The rest, if I take it, will be rated appropriately targeting $65 per hour shop time.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

Zig, I’m off topic here, and if you don’t mind? How are you doing the convex salon shears? I have been holding off on these as the equipment I have looked at is $$$$$. I use Twice As Sharp for all other shears.

[Ziggy]

Zig, I’m off topic here, and if you don’t mind? How are you doing the convex salon shears? I have been holding off on these as the equipment I have looked at is $$$$$. I use Twice As Sharp for all other shears.

NP.
I took the plunge and went for a flat hone.
Yeah, the $$ is an issue, but there is a market.
And, its a whole nother world of sharpening.
Info on how to is hard to get and variables are intimidating to say the least.

Big learning curve and am taking it slow.
Odd market to boot.
Unlike knives which to me are straight forward, each shear has its own set of variables, they are like puzzles, down to how the stylist cuts.

The TAS is my go to for utility, household, fabric, even barber or groomer shears. Though barber and grooming overlap and flat hone can be way to go.

[Gib Curry]

for the 2014 fair season i have pretty much set all my prices here:

straight bladed knives – $1.00 per inch.

serrated knives: $3.00 per inch

high grade japanese knives: $2.00 per inch

Over the last few weeks that this thread re-appeared at the top I’ve been doing some local current pricing.

This is about the local average — perhaps a touch low.

A few places are doing something like multiple levels of sharp: Standard, Extreme & Scary is how one company puts it. Prices are from $1.50 to $3 per inch.

~~~~

It’s a timely conversation. This weekend I got seven kitchen knives to sharpen — my first paying customer!!

Now I also get to figure out bookkeeping, time & record keeping in earnest.

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo Barr]

I have two basic prices for kitchen knives -restaurants I charge 5€ a knife regardless of size restaurants normally have them done once a month . Yachts or private 8€ again any size the yachts like private owners tend to do them once or twice a year so normally there is more work to do. If a knife needs repair on the belt sander or reprofiling then I charge more.
Single edge knives such as Yanagi actually require more work so there are 3 areas to sharpen – the uri the back- the blade road and the edge so these can be up to 3 times the work so they may be as much as 24€ if all need working; normally the bulk is the blade road and the edge plus a couple of passes on the uri so these are 16€-24€.
Ceramic knives currently I charge 16€ since they take at least 3-4 times the time of a normal knife to do depending on condition.

[Gib Curry]

I have two basic prices …

for the 2014 fair season i have pretty much set all my prices here…

New pricing now going to $1.25 an inch for kitchen…..

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The above three are the most recent pricing in this thread.

I went through the archives on the this Forum, on another blade/knife forum and through Google for pricing and through this current thread.

Having a client for the first time, I’m keeping track of hours and will need to present him with a list of my hours, what I did and (for purposes of this thread) what I charge.

I’m going to use this as a base model and see how it goes.

So, here’s what pieced together for pricing from everything I read.

Straight Bladed Knives $ 1.00 per inch $ 5.00 minimum
High-grade Japanese Knives $ 2.00 per inch $ 10.00 minimum
Serrated Knives $ 3.00 per inch $ 15.00 minimum
Ceramic Knives $ 3.00 per inch $15.00 minimum
Folders $ 10.00 and up depending on number of blades, etc. by prior agreement
with client

Cleavers $ 2.00 per inch
Scissors $ 8.00 and up (for now, I won’t be doing scissors for $$)

The above is for Standard Sharp. (to 800/1000 steel then strop)

Add $ 1/inch for Scary Sharp. (steel, ceramic, stones, strop)
Add $ 2/inch for Wicked Sharp (convex, mirror polish, strop)

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Bolster/Heel/Ricasso Repair $ 5.00 minimum by agreement with client
Reprofiling/Thinning $ 1.00 per inch $ 5.00 minimum

Shipping & Handling $ 5.00 plus shipping
Pickup charge $ 0.56 per mile (IRS 2014 standard mileage rates)

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My goal is to make a few bucks to maintain supplies, etc. But, were I to generate a decent hourly, I might be able to afford an “investment” knife and an upper grade EDC.

We’ll see. Thanks to all the Master and professional sharpeners here for leading the way and sharing your experience freely.

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo Barr]

I have one query on your prices & that is thinning this is necessary on virtually all knives except for very thin knives like Victorinox or for boning knives .The secondary bevel needs to be done each time otherwise the shoulders of the primary bevel wedge up .For knives I do on the WE I do the secondary bevel on diamond bench plates or a belt sander then I do the primary on the WE with just the 600 grit . If a knife is really thick then I would consider charging more.
The difficulty is that it is very easy to neglect thinning on a rod guided system but if you are competing with say a sharpening shop or even someone using a wheel it is most likely that the blades will be thinned as a matter of course.
if there are big shoulders on the primary bevel it does not matter how hair popping sharp it is it will not cut properly except through pre sliced cheese or ham for instance a metal spatular for plastering will cut quite well simple because it is thin.
Unfortunately people always judge your work by your worst output so it is vital to make sure the knife is thin enough .

I rant on Gib and I suspect after attending lectures and shows that you are well aware of this !
Just in case someone else is not aware of this (I certainly was not when I begun sharpening and thought I was doing a really good job).

Think Murray Carter’s 6 steps -step 4 Blade thickness adjustment – the secondary bevel.

[Mark76]

Leo, why do you do the secondary bevel on diamond plates and the primary bevel on the WEPS? (I understand if you use a belt sander for the secondary bevel.) On most kitchen knives I put a primary bevel of 15-20 degrees and a secondary bevel that is 2-3 degrees less is then quite doable on the WEPS.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Gib Curry]

I have one query on your prices & that is thinning this is necessary on virtually all knives except ……

I rant on Gib and I suspect after attending lectures and shows that you are ….

Rant on!!

Hey, you all know I’m making this up as I go along!! :cheer:

And, since I’ve never actually charged nor been paid, are these really “my prices”?!!?

So, a set price of $5.00 for thinning on all blades. Or, enough per inch to accommodate. Or, work faster.

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo Barr]

If I am doing the knives at a restaurant then adding the diamond plates is practical and is quicker than thinning on the WE at 10˚ if I do the knives in the right order there are not more than 1/2 tweaks between most of the knives.
The thinning bevel I do on an Atoma 140 and a DMT to equivalent 600 grit. It is mainly less hassle for me to do it this way since setting up angles is time consuming and I can save time by doing them on the plates to begin with then I just use the 600 paddles for the primary bevel keeping it as thin as possible.
I find it takes about 5 passes per side with the Atoma and then 5 with the DMT to keep secondary to primary in the right proportion provided (and I have previously thinned them this way)I am virtually through to the edge then it is only a few passes on the WE with the 600 to get a good result . The trick is to do enough on the secondary bevel plus it does not have to be as accurate as the primary so it suits poor light as in a restaurant . So I tend to do all the knives in the restaurant on the plates first then get them out of the way and then set up the WE.
The plates also help for correcting the profile since if for instance a cook has been using a steel there is often a hollow in the profile curve so I find the bench plates are big enough to make profile corrections much easier than on the WE or in the past on the EP which is another reason I take them with me.

[Leo Barr]

It is difficult to price especially when you are competing with sharpeners that use machinery . I try to have a price that is firstly simple for the customer and one whereby I win on some knives and loose a little on others .
If prices are too complex people can be put off .
Someone once said that the way to increase prices is with volume so if you have more than enough knives to sharpen then adjust the prices this is how restaurants or hairdressers operate and why in big cities a top hairdresser will charge more than 100€ for a hair cut because they are in demand the same can be applied to many businesses like sharpening the busier you are the more people will pay and the more the word is Gib is such a master sharpener so the more you can charge .
Currently I live in Mallorca and language is my barrier plus the Mallorceans think that foreigners are charities for them and should virtually give their services gratis.
I am sure for instance if you had Korin or Japanese knife imports sharpen or repair a knife it would be a double figure sum and you would have to wait.
I move back to the UK soon and will have to see what prices are realistic to start with ; there is another danger that if you do not charge enough then people can think that you are not very good which can be bad for business (that is my belief anyway for services -[too cheep and I immediately think they cannot be any good]).

[Josh]

A couple of notes: what murray Carter refers to as the secondary bevel is known as the primary grind /bevel by many others, so we must be clear about what we mean 🙂

So Leo, when you thin one down, do you do the entire main grind like this?

I ask because you mentioned 10 degrees whereas most knives are around 2-4dps on the “secondary bevel”. If this is what you mean, I am surprised it only takes 5 passes… A knife like this will take me 1 hour to do and I typically charge $20-40 just for the thinning, not to mention the sharpening.

Gib, it seems like your prices for mirror finish are CHEAP! I find that I can’t charge less than $30 for mirror finishing a pocket knife, and as much as $50 for thick beveled knives. It definitely takes a while! Now, I can cut some reprofiling time down with my belt sander, but still!

Hope all goes well for you side business!!

[Leo Barr]

If the blade is thick I take more than one go to get it there once it is achieved then it is not much to keep it going the secondary bevel is the thinning bevel . The secondary bevel angle is estimated I look for a gap between the spine and the stone and a sustainable angle without scratching the entire face of the knife so I estimate the angle maybe it is less than 10˚.
So to begin with the thinning bevel I will just take the shoulders away from the primary but even then it will be an improvement so each time it is done I take it a little further and the result is less work on the WE . Plus many kitchen knives are soft steel so they grind down really quickly which is another reason why I aim to get the secondary virtually to the edge then it is very little work on the WE and the primary almost becomes a micro bevel I find if I do too much on the edge with the WE then I end up with a wide primary bevel which then takes longer to sharpen.
It is a discipline to do on most knives otherwise the primary gets too wide and shouldered the exception is on boning knives due to there high angle 23˚and it is not necessary for a thinning bevel since the blade needs to be stout to handle the bone scraping similar to where cleavers start off.
I have never really tried for a perfect mirror finish I find certainly 1K on bench stones starts to produce a good shine I have stopped stropping on leather since it is so easy to round off the edge so I strop(hone) on the stones this maintains a good apex on the edge the burr is normally removed through the honing and a couple of passes over a plank of wood.
I think most people are interested in sustainable sharpness unless the knife is to be used for shaving then the mirror edge is more important but when the blade is in this state like a razor it will need stropping after each use.
Whatever the edge it will not last long take a vegetable knife and cut 10Kg of veg and it will need attention or a hunters knife and dress a dear it will definitely need resharpening after that if it is exceptional steel if it is mediocre it will need sharpening half way through.
So for me the mirror finish is really for a cabinet or show knife which justifies a high charge to achieve it so I think your price of 21.66€ is a good minimum for a knife which will probable never be used unless you just mirror finish the secondary bevel which some people do on Japanese knives I prefer the Kasumi (smokey) finish although you need certain types of stones to achieve this neither Choseras or Shaptons do this; King, Bester or natural stones do this .

[tcmeyer]

Josh: A quick Google search (and from my viewpoint) shows that the primary bevel on a full-face-grind knife (as with your Spyderco’s) is the flat surface on the side of the blade. A secondary bevel is the one we sharpen the edge with.

By definition, the primary bevel is the first to be ground and the largest in scale.

Have you read or been told otherwise?

[Leo Barr]

This is a point I brought up last year that of terminology the secondary bevel which say on a Scandi grind does not exist is the angle between the primary and the main body of the knife some off the shelf knives do not have this say for instance Victorinox or Sabatiers but many knives benefit from the addition of the secondary or thinning bevel between the primary and the main body of the knife .
http://www.wickededgeusa.com/forum/11-thoughts-theories-science-related-to-sharpening/12279-bevels-terminolgy in this the secondary bevel may be referred to the back bevel the problem is that short of using the Japanese terms there is no standard.

Leo Nav

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