Having trouble sharpening a Microtech Whaleshark

[Shawn Ginardi]

Well I mounted it up in the WEPS and everything was working good except about 1/8-1/4 inch from the point.

The point stayed sharp, but it doesn’t seem to be sharpening just before that. I am worried, because I have a DOC with the same blade type also.

It’s hard to explain but I was looking on the right side of the knife while it was mounted and you could see the edge running all the way down the knife but just before the tip, it was like there was another edge at a different angle that wasn’t getting sharpened. I tried with the 100 grit stones many times, but it wasn’t making the edge like the rest of the knife.

Any suggestions?

[cbwx34]

Take a look at this… Positioning the knife front to back.

If that doesn’t help, you may want to post a picture.

[Shawn Ginardi]

Wow perfect thank you. While we’re here talking I have a PP1 and angle cube. I zero’d the cube on the base and then took measurements and both sides were set at 18. The left side was 17.5 and the right side was 16.8 are the arms off or is the cubes off.

[Mikedoh]

Set your angles using the angle cube. Only one jaw/side of the vise moves, so despite setting the arms by the degree marks on the rod, the angles will not be the same.

[Robert Nash]

Wow perfect thank you. While we’re here talking I have a PP1 and angle cube. I zero’d the cube on the base and then took measurements and both sides were set at 18. The left side was 17.5 and the right side was 16.8 are the arms off or is the cubes off.

+1 on Curtis sweet spot link. For angles I always trust the sharpie more than anything else and record those base rod settings. Angle cubes can lead you wrong too and get you uneven bevels if the edge is not centered. Also they are super sensitive so slight changes in pressure on the handles, leaning front to back etc and so will give you variance even measuring the angle on the same side of the knife multiple times.

If you re-profile using the angle cube to make the angles even, work slow and watch where the sharpie is telling you the stones are actually hitting and where you are removing metal so you don’t end up with something you are unhappy with. Fixing it later can be a chore.

[Shawn Ginardi]

Ok so now knowing that the holes on the base are off about a degree from each other, what has happened with the knives I’ve already sharpened?

I was getting a screaming sharp edge going from 100-1000 and then stropping.

Doesn’t the sharpie just tell you what the previous angle is and when you’ve re-profiled evenly?

I took some knives and most of them set the angles (or I thought) to 20 degrees each side. I was thinking thati was re-profiling them to a 20 degree no matter what their angles were. Is this not what I should have been doing?

[Robert Nash]

Ok so now knowing that the holes on the base are off about a degree from each other, what has happened with the knives I’ve already sharpened?

I was getting a screaming sharp edge going from 100-1000 and then stropping.

As long as the bevels look even (left to right or face to back if you prefer) and you got a sharp edge – then from my point of view all is good. 🙂 I know others have and will have different thoughts on this, but what I care about is that the bevel appearance is nice and even from heel to tip on both sides and comparing left to right. If the angles as measured on the angle cube are 19 on one side and 21 on the other (or even on the base rod) I don’t remove a lot of metal trying to make the angles even. I don’t think the edge really cares in terms of cutting performance at these small difference – though you can achieve different behavior in cutting by either pushing the cutting edge farther off center intentionally or by varying the angle larger amounts. Basically I don’t reprofile just to make angles even unless someone asks me to. I do reprofile to fix something that looks odd (or repair for someone their reprofile job), restoring the relief, for performance (like going for a sharper edge to see if it will hold) or intentionally trying to change the look of the knife

Be aware too that the height of the cutting edge and a tilt/twist in the knife will change the effective angles.

Doesn’t the sharpie just tell you what the previous angle is and when you’ve re-profiled evenly?

The thicker you knife stock, the more acute the right side angle will be in comparison to the left. That is one of the reasons I like using the sharpie to match angles and I just record what I find on the base rod as my touchup angle assuming everything looks even. Then if I decide to reprofile, I change the angle equally on both sides as measured on the base rod. So if I get 20 on left and 22 on right and I want to come in to 17, I bring the left in 3 degrees to 17 and the right in 3 to 19. Then as long as you keep your work balanced your bevels will still be even when you are done.

My suggestion with the sharpie is that it is a great trick to always be able to see what the stones are doing (for my eyes which seem to get worse by the day I rely on sharpie and magnification quite a lot :sick: ) It will show you exactly how much metal you are removing from the shoulder so you can see your progress. So I try to color in so that there is a little sharpie of the face of the knife beyond the bevel, then if that is getting thinner or is gone and I wasn’t wanting to widen the bevel on that side I know I need to change what I am doing. Or it is gone on one side and not the other you know you need to work on that side where it is left exclusively for a bit to get things even again. You can also use the sharpie repeatedly to color in the bevel during sharpening to ensure you are hitting the full edge evenly. I’ve discovered this way that when I’m working at a show since I am talking so much and not watching what I am doing I tend to miss the heel so I concentrate effort there always prior to changing grits.

I took some knives and most of them set the angles (or I thought) to 20 degrees each side. I was thinking thati was re-profiling them to a 20 degree no matter what their angles were. Is this not what I should have been doing?

I don’t think there is a should around choosing to reprofile to make the angles even, only preferences. Being aware of the limitations of the tools helps you make decisions to get the results you want. Just because the angles read even on the cube or the WEPS doesn’t mean your bevels are going to be even in the end. I’ve had to fix or help others fix reprofiling attempts on some nice pieces, so I advise patience and using something to monitor your progress should you choose even angles as one of your goals on a knife. Also practice on some things that aren’t as personally valuable first.

For me, I sharpen my own stuff at the existing angles a few times and use them. And then if I feel that I want something different from the performance I make the changes in angles. I like having that baseline for the knife to work from.

[Ted S]

Guess I must be missing something. Seems you would never create a burr on one side if angles are different.

Thought that WE’s main attribute was to be able to get the same angle on each side.

[Robert Nash]

Good questions…:cheer:….The burr is created as a function of getting your scratches all the way to the cutting edge and ensures for you that in fact the two bevels are meeting at the apex of a triangle creating a sharp edge. Once you get the bevel you are working flat at the angle you are using you will have gotten the scratches all the way to the edge of the blade and the metal will stretch over to the other side – that is what we can feel as the burr. So you’ll get that burr no matter the angles that are meeting at the edge – as long as they in fact meet at the top of that triangle you are creating.

Wicked Edge is great at getting equal angles no doubt, but so are the other controlled angle or rod guided or guided angle (whichever name you choose) systems and other jigs out there(in fact many argue that others are better right out of the box given the clamp set up in relation to the base rod making the right side more acute as the blade gets thicker).

I think one of the many Wicked Edge strengths is its ability to deal with asymmetrical grinds easily. The others are much harder to work them on IMO since you have to keep adjusting the angle setting every time you turn the knife over 😛 .

[Shawn Ginardi]

One thing I noticed was when I used the cube to approximately get the same angle (I just received the PP1, I have the PP2 on order)

I noticed that the bevel was noticeably different, so I lined up the arms again both to 19 degrees from what the base says, even though i new it was a degree off and they bevels lined up and looked good.

The reason I was trying to reprofile was that I read a thread on here from a guy who sets his WEPS to 23 degrees t the farmers market and leaves it there for all days worth of knives to sharpen. I jut thought it would be easier to use the same angle for most of my knives.

[Leo Barr]

I think Bob has given you some good advice here.
One thing to do is point the knife towards your face to see if the profile is even and more importantly that the knife is not bent or has any hollows in the grind.
The bevels should look the same for a normal double bevel knife so even if the angles are not identical the walls so to speak of the bevel should be of the same height .
For myself I would not grind away precious metal unless necessary or to thin the blade to improve cutting ability .Steepening the bevel should be fine unless the bevel is made into a single bevel then the blade may well be too thick so it may well need thinning to keep up the cutting performance unless you want to use it for battening .
If the shoulders of the bevel are far apart it will create a lot of friction when cutting although if you convex it will be improved.The bevel needs it shoulders close together to perform well considering the edge that you can achieve with the WE if not it will hardly be worth refining the edge unless it is purely for looks .

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