Have I been screwing things up?

[leupold1]

I bought the WEPS about a month ago and have been sharpening everything in sight. I’ve added the 800/1000 stones and 5/3.5 strops. The results seem to be positive. I can easily cut paper with the end product (my wife’s getting tired of bits of paper laying around), and I have worked on my brother’s and nephew’s hunting knives. Nevertheless, my experience and skill are still very limited. Additionally, I’m afraid I’ve been making a serious mistake and need some clarification on how to approach my sharpening.
When I get a knife to sharpen, my habit has been use a Sharpie to match the angle and then mirror that angle on the other side. I think, however, that I’m using the 100 grit stone too much. My thought was that I needed to raise a burr with that grit to ensure I was addressing the angle properly. In reading some of the posts, I think I’m too aggressive with the lower numbered grits. I’ve seen the videos and thought this was the proper procedure. What should I do? At what point should I be concerned about raising a burr? I have to admit that raising a burr takes a bit of time with the 100 grit, and there’s quite a bit of metal on the base when I’m done.
So, at what point do you worry about a burr? What is the role of the 100/200 grit stone in sharpening? Do you check for a burr at every grit?
Thanks in advance for all the advice. Additionally, given the stones/strops I have, what would purchase next? I’m trying to slowly add to my knife sharpening materials, and am thinking about what’s next in the progression.

[Leo James Mitchell]

Raising a burr for the first time is very important for getting the optimum edge. During the action of pulling up a burr, one uses some pressure to get it, but that is the only time pressure is necessary. Using too much force on the rest of the steps is counter-productive.
Once you have your initial burr and then the final edge you want, record all the info necessary in your notebook so you can easily go back and setup the knife again for a few swipes of the finer paddles to bring back the edge when it gets a little dull.
You have not screwed up. Remember too, the diamonds stones take a little time to break in and will give you better edges as you go along. Having said that, your edges will be very good right from the get go. 😉

Leo

[Leo James Mitchell]

I missed this. No, you don’t have to check for the burr at every stage, just the vital step one…and away you go. As for losing too much metal, the WEPS probably removes less metal than any of the other sharpening systems of note. as for what to add next, keep your eyes peeled to the posts here and you will see what others are recommending, plus it will depend on to what extent you intend to sharpen and polish. If you are like some of us we get down to polishing the molecules of steel in some cases. LOL!

Leo 🙂

[leupold1]

I feel a lot better. Thanks for the reinforcement. Now, where do I go from here? What stone/strop would you recommend as my next step? The strops I used have polished the blade a bit, but when I reduce the angle by 2 degrees, I don’t think I’m getting as much action on the edge. I certainly don’t want to round over the apex, but the sharpened edge is not being polished as much as I would like or expect. Either I’m doing something wrong (probably), or I need to add something to my equipment. Thoughts? Ceramics? Higher grit?

[Leo James Mitchell]

Ceramics do it for me, but stay tuned and I suspect you will shortly get all kinds of suggestions from the gang here.

Leo

[Ken Buzbee]

Ceramics do it for me, but stay tuned and I suspect you will shortly get all kinds of suggestions from the gang here.

Leo

+1 Leo! The base stones + 800/1000 + micro ceramics will get you most anything you’d absolutely need. Anything more is just our OCD running amok 😉

Ken

[Geocyclist]

As far as “too much metal” on the base this depends some on how much you re-profile. If you match the factory edge perfectly you should not have much, and should get a burr quickly. If you change the bevel dramatically expect some metal. But the next time there will very little. Assuming you keep the same angle next time you sharpen that knife.

[Eamon Mc Gowan]

You say this like it is a bad thing? Lol Just playing 😛 I think once a guy buys a WEPS he has just admitted out loud to the world that he is OCD!

[Ken Buzbee]

Anything more is just our OCD running amok 😉
Ken

You say this like it is a bad thing? Lol Just playing 😛 [/quote]

No judgement attached. 😉 Just being real.

Some of us know we’ve gone a little nutty with the variety of stones we’ve acquired. For someone just getting started it’s good to let them know they can get a terrific edge without a full set of Choseras AND a full set of Shaptons AND a full set of Atomas AND every possible strop material/grit combination. It can get a little overwhelming. 😉

I think once a guy buys a WEPS he has just admitted out loud to the world that he is OCD!

Yeah, but you need to let folks figure that out on their own. 😉

Let them truely believe that once they buy a few basic stones, they are done and can go back to life as they knew it.

Eventually they’ll understand, but by then it’s too late. 😉

Ken

[Gib Curry]

Raising a burr for the first time is very important for getting the optimum edge. During the action of pulling up a burr, one uses some pressure to get it, but that is the only time pressure is necessary. Using too much force on the rest of the steps is counter-productive.

Once you have your initial burr and then the final edge you want, record all the info necessary in your notebook so you can easily go back and setup the knife again for a few swipes of the finer paddles to bring back the edge when it gets a little dull.

You have not screwed up. Remember too, the diamonds stones take a little time to break in and will give you better edges as you go along. Having said that, your edges will be very good right from the get go. 😉

Leo

I’m still learning the difference between “thinking” I’m feeling the burr and actually feeling the burr. The WEPS made all my knives sharper than they had been but when I realized this difference all my sharpening took a keener turn.

I try to not go below the 400/600, for some reason I can’t justify in this moment! And, usually, this is all I need to sharpen to the edge, find the burr and move on. But, for example, a Henckels pairing knife I’ve been working on right now. There’s one section of it that refused to become sharpened.

Going back, I re-raise the burr to one side, then the other on the 400 of the 400/600. But, right in that section, I realized yesterday, that I thought I felt a burr but really it just wasn’t there like the rest of the edge.

So, I dropped down to the 100/200 and started over. 100 – Raised a burr on both sides. 200 – same thing; both sides. 400 – Raised a burr on both sides. Moved on, merrily polishing up through the grit chart.

This time, that section was sharp.

So, I just needed to be more patient, alert and understanding of my process…..

…. not screwing things up — gaining experience….

Recall… wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from failure.

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo James Mitchell]

Making mistakes occurs in the learning of any skill. The important thing is to do as you did…be patient, analyze what is happening or not happening , then try again using the new knowledge you gained from your analysis. Bit by bit your skills develop. I have often said that sharpening is a very Zen experience…your mind is open without over-thinking. You use all your senses to feel the edge developing, especially your sense of hearing and touch, almost more than the sense of sight in a way. To me they are very important. Gradually you find you and the WEPS the stones and your knives are all working in concert so the edges you produce are nearly perfection.
The Chinese have an old saying that I love that applies to the development of any skill…Slowly, slowly catches the monkey!
Sorry to wax ‘Zenishly’ but your thoughtful post got me going. Good stuff Gib! “When you can take the stone from my hand Grasshopper, it will be time to leave.” LOL! I loved the Kung Fu series.

Leo

[Gib Curry]

…. not screwing things up —

Well, except for the asymmetrical grind and the serrated blade I ruined early on! :S (They were mine & relatively cheap, so it’s OK. Sort of..)

My inspection techniques improve as I get better at recognizing what I am seeing. (Is that circular logic?)

…. experience comes from failure —

I was gaining a lot of experience fast early on! :cheer:

~~~~
For Now,

Gib

Φ

"Everyday edge for the bevel headed"

"Things work out best for those who make the best out of the way things work out."

[Leo Barr]

Its how we learn it is very difficult to give someone enough instructions to cover every point since what is obvious to one is not for another best lessons learned are as a result of errors.
I would recommend checking with a loupe; ceramic blades produce no burr so you have to use loupe to see that you have reached the edge.
I think you are correct in not wanting to go to a course grit if possible steel is valuable so removing less is good.

[Leo Barr]

Why don’t you grind off the remaining serrations and make a new edge I have done this on about 4/5 cheap knives I even turned a small serrated Ikea knife into a chisel edged knife .
Grinding off serrations is also good once they start getting too flai.

[Leo James Mitchell]

I think from reading many of your thoughtful posts, that you question, learn and progress as per ‘catching the proverbial monkey’ Gib.It is a good way to learn and your questions are also worthwhile to others who read them. There are many like you here on the forum who contribute well not only by giving answers but also by incisive questioning. As an old teacher it is very satisfying to see. Also keeps the Forum humming. :cheer:

Cheers mate
Leo

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