Ceramic Paddles

[BassLake Dan]

Hope this helps:
(Click on the link parts below to see the video series composed of three parts)

part 1

part 2

part 3

[Charles Soukup]

Am I mistaken in thinking that these ceramics should be quite a bit harder than steel? I just picked one of mine up and used a swiss army knife to easily shave a small nick off the end of the 1600. Tried the same thing with my sharpmaker stones (on the corner) and all it did was add a new nick to my blade.

[Ralph Honeycutt]

I purchased two sets of the 1200/1600 ceramics. I experienced a lot of dusting (with both 1200 & 1600) on the 1st set. Both sets are very porous (no magnification required to see this). The 1st set was noticably softer than the 2nd set. I have only sharpened 4-5 knives (total) with the two sets.

I have not tried, but I believe both sets could be easily scored with a butter knife. There is no comparison of these 1200/1600 ceramics with the Spyderco Sharpmaker ceramics. The Sharpmaker ceramics are much harder. I am anxious to hear Clay’s comments regarding the quality of these. I am not in a hurry to send them back because of waiting so long for these.

I thought I understood from another thread on this forum that the Coorstek Ceramics should be available by now.

In the meantime the Shaptons and Choseras do an excellent job. At this point, I prefer the Shaptons (much quicker, IMO)

Ralph

[wickededge]

Hey guys,

I haven’t formulated any solid opinions yet though I have spent the last two days testing the new batch vs the old and comparing them with the new Coorstek stones (yep, they’re in and I’m checking them out, so far I’m very pleased but we’re still experimenting with adhering them to the handles since they are much less porous than our other ceramics.) I’ve also spent a fair amount of time on the phone with the owner of the company that manufactures our ceramics, bringing him up to speed on all the comments and issues. He has also read through the forum posts to see what’s going on. I’ll be posting his responses once he gets them emailed over. He did brief me on their QA/QC procedure and equipment and educated me as to why there is more or less pitting depending on each batch: the pitting occurs most on the blue stone and happens as a result of the burnout of the cobalt that is used for coloration. There is a fair amount of variation of the burnout between the batches which reflects in more or less pitting. He also explained the initial powdering of the surface of the stones though I’ll wait for his technical explanation before posting it. I’m most concerned with performance and longevity of the stones which is why I’m testing a new set against my old set. My first step has been to work on breaking in the new set. I’ve got a little more work to do there before I will flatten both sets and study the finish they produce and their wear rates.

So far I’ve found that the new Coorstek stones definitely need to be broken in – the first few edges were rough and somewhat chipped but that has since calmed down and the edges are looking really nice. The Coorstek stones are much harder than the Superfine ceramics though I don’t yet see a performance advantage yet to the extra hardness. If anything, I like the friability of the Superfine stones.

Ken from the manufacturer of the Superfine stones recommends using either oil or water on the stones, which I agree with – I like using a little spray bottle of water with a drop of dish soap to keep the stones lubricated during use. If you use water, make sure you use filtered or distilled water to eliminate hard minerals.

So far, I’m not as worried about the stones as I was a couple of days ago; I’ll keep posting as I learn more.

-Clay

[wickededge]

Here are some quotes from the manufacturer of the stones:

“After reading over the forum I really think that your customers are just seeing the kiln edge of the stones. I read where some of them are saying that if they rub the two stones together the problem goes away. We do offer shoot siding at $.15 per stone. You can also do this yourself at assembly by rubbing the stones together.

I also recommend using cutting oil with these stones. It will give you a better stone life and performance.

We checked your stone QC history and your GOM is set at 50-70 range. The last two orders has run 50-53 that is the hard side, not soft. Our GOM test is the best way to test friability, hardness, and ware ability of stone. This is a $900,000.00 QC test. It is second to none. All stones shipped to Hollow Point passed all of Tennessee Abrasive manufacturing specifications.”

I’m getting ready to flatten the old and new stones and do some side-by-side comparisons. Images and results to follow.

-Clay

[David]

Clay,
How do you suggest flattening the stones? My 1600 stones seem flat with each other. But the 1200 stones are definitely dished fairly significantly and only after doing 5 knives with them. Granted I did not check them for flatness before I started using them.

[wickededge]

Clay,
How do you suggest flattening the stones? My 1600 stones seem flat with each other. But the 1200 stones are definitely dished fairly significantly and only after doing 5 knives with them. Granted I did not check them for flatness before I started using them.

I rub them against one of the diamonds stones under running water. It helps to draw a grid in pencil to visualize where more work needs to be done – when all the pencil is gone, you should be all set. I usually use my 600 or 800 grit stones for the job. Ken Schwartz has posted extensively on flattening stones here: Flattening Stones

-Clay

[wickededge]

I’ve messed around with my old set and new set all day after flattening both. I’m not getting any more powder coming off the new ones and the results under the microscope look very similar. Wear up to this point seems negligible on both sets. Once I’ve had some more time to interpret the images, I’ll organize them and post them but my first glances at them don’t indicate any real big differences (aside from that fact that everything looks big at 510x). I’ll keep posting as I learn more, but I’m feeling more and more confident in this batch.

I wish I had one of BassLakeDan’s sharpness testing jigs – that would be a wonderful way to compare the stones!

-Clay

[wickededge]

I retested honing oil on the ceramics and I don’t recommend it. I get as good or better results with slightly soapy water. The oil causes the stones to come off of the handles.

-Clay

[Dennis Hibar]

Clay …

Thanks so much for all the effort you are putting in to investigate what may or may not be an issue with the new ceramics. For me, the concern was not so much the powder, but the pitting. If using them like this is okay … I am alright with that. I do remember you mentioning a while ago when you were doing grit progression images, that you did a test with the wetting down the ceramics. It was interesting to see that the manufacturer recommends wetting the down. You are handling a vise issue for me … but once I am back up and running, I’ll be using the ceramics, sprayed down a little with distilled water. Again, thanks.

[Ralph Honeycutt]

I had indicated in an earlier post that I was having problems with dusting when using the Superfine ceramics. The problem apparently went away after 6-8 sharpening sessions. Also, it is possible that I could have using the 1200/1600 ceramics in a too heavy handed fashion. I started using filtered water with a bit of dish soap as previously suggested by Mark76 and Clay(I think). The results are excellent.

Also, I received the Coorstek Ceramics yesterday. These ultrafine ceramics work great right out of the box. I followed the Superfine Ceramics with the New Ultrafine (Coorstek) Ceramics. The amount of time spent stropping down to 0.5u is very fast to achieve the desired edge.

I think the difference in the Superfine and Coorstek Ceramics is significant. While the Superfine Ceramics appear to be more porous than the Coorstek Ceramics, the difference in results are amazing. I have consciously tried to lighten up on the pressure with the both sets of ceramics. My results have improved significantly. In my next post, I will try to include a few photos. So many knives, so little time!

Ralph

[Steven Pinson]

Adding to the fray:

Anybody seen this as a failure mode or defect yet on their paddles?

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/SPIN1963/DSCN0129.jpg

[Bill K]

ouch .. that sucks

i have used my ceramics twice since this thread started and do not have your problem.

[Robert Nash]

Adding to the fray:

Anybody seen this as a failure mode or defect yet on their paddles?

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/SPIN1963/DSCN0129.jpg%5B/quote%5D

“ouch .. that sucks” x2 :sick:

Never seen or heard of that in my time at WE or since. A few with cracks running across the short dimension – like maybe the stone wasn’t quite flat across the length and pressure cracked them. I’d call in and talk with Kyle or Kay and get a new set on the way. Out of curiosity did they crack like that in use? (looks like a crack anyway – is that what is happening? :unsure: )

[wickededge]

Adding to the fray:

Anybody seen this as a failure mode or defect yet on their paddles?

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/SPIN1963/DSCN0129.jpg%5B/quote%5D

We haven’t seen that before! Please send it in.

-Clay

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