Ceramic Paddles

[Robert Nash]

Deputy115 – I guess my question is, did the supplier, who made the first batch, make these stones and if so, have they changed the proccess or materials in making the second batch? Was quality control compromised by the expedited demand for the ceramics?

DennisHibar – However … where does WE recommend not cleaning the ceramics with water? I can’t find that. I do recall come conversation about using various abrasive cleansers … but don’t remember, nor can I find, any recommendation not to use water. I clean all my accessory stones with water (of course cool and I don’t submerse them), cleanser, and a toothbrush. Anyway, hope to get definitive word from WE after the holidays.

Good morning Dennis and Deputy –
I don’t know that WE has stuff printed on caring for the ceramics – didn’t while I was there and their printed materials haven’t changed any. I thought I had read something in the forum regarding it since I left but couldn’t find it yesterday (but I couldn’t find a couple other things either that were much larger discussions at the time). All I know is the recommendations we made while I was working there (up to Feb this year.) and the supplier hasn’t changed; it is still Tennessee Abrasives manufacturing them and the order in process right now is with them as well.
I did talk with Kay, Kyle and Kathy as well yesterday to let them know about the discussion on the forum and check in on their experience with the stones. Calls coming in to the office at this point don’t indicate that the problem is any larger than what the forum is showing regarding the stones (sorry I didn’t include that in my reassurance about the apparent size of the problem). At the time they had a several calls in total and this was after Roadkill and Bud had called in.
It is also possible that it is appearing small as people just haven’t opened their stones and started using them. But given the size of the shipment that went out, the quickness which they were shipped and the fact that many people like us had been waiting for a very long time I think if the problem wasn’t a small set of anomalies it would be showing up more quickly. When we had the problem with the vises starting around Christmas and into early this year, we had calls within days of them going out, the volume of contacts just keep increasing and we went through our back up supply in no time. Same with the ceramics last year that were breaking easily (a 2% of stone problem that peaked pretty quickly in calls and emails). Wicked Edge worked with the supplier then to fix the problem and replaced all the vises in question plus a lot more before they had the chance to potentially cause folks problems, same with the ceramics and I’m sure that they will handle this problem in the same way.
If you have problems with your stones, please do contact them and they will take care of you.
It would be helpful for them to know though based upon your experience if the situation with your stones is stabilizing with use, or if all the pitted ones are going to be like Bud’s and have to be replaced after 12 uses. So hopefully your experience working over the weekend will show the future for anyone else who runs across it.
Keep us up to date on your experience and results.
Have a great weekend – I’m off for Loveland!
Bob

[Mark76]

I think Bob gave a very good response.

When I compare the photographs of the new ceramic stones to my ceramics, which I got a few months ago, they look quite different. Although my ceramic stones may have been a bit rougher when I just got them than they are now, they never showed any pitting and they never lost any powder.

Is it normal for stones to show pitting or loose powder? My gut feeling says no, but to be honest, I am no more an expert than any other participant of this forum. I really think Clay should look into this. Since WE has always stood for their products 100%, I am sure he will look into it as soon as he is back. Clay remarked in some other topic that he was leaving for two weeks, so I assume he will be back around Whitsun.

I know Wicked Edge switched to another manufacturer of ceramic stones, so this batch is made by a different manufacturer than the previous ones.

As to cleaning ceramic stones, I am not aware that Wicked Edge recommends not using water. They have indicated the stones can be used dry during sharpening. However, I noticed that using water during sharpening may give better results, which was confirmed by Clay (link). I think the stones can safely be cleaned using water and a toothbrush.

Some recent discussions on maintaining (ceramic) stones:

• Maintaining stones, also on the role of water
• Cleaning stones, also with aggressive abrasives. (Definitely not recommended if you are not sure about the quality of the binder of the stones.)

It is hard to wait for a long time for your ceramic stones and then not to know whether they are good or not. But, as I wrote, Clay should be back soon and I am sure he will look into this right away.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[Robert Nash]

Deputy115 – Was quality control compromised by the expedited demand for the ceramics?

Hi Deputy – Missed this one and your question about and materials :blink: not enough sleep :blink: – no change in Wicked Edge’s assembly and quality checking processes on the stones due to high demand and the manufacturing process is the same as well (no changes in specs etc and TA has been making these stones all along). Demand has been high and increasing for almost a year and a half on these and from my conversations yesterday with Kathy and Kyle, the shipping pace is basically the same as in the past. It has been a cycle of backorder and ship since holidays 2010 when sales volume skyrocketed and kept going up at amazing rates since. Hope that helps some –
Best 🙂
Bob

[Jamie Baldwin]

Deputy115 – Was quality control compromised by the expedited demand for the ceramics?

Hi Deputy – Missed this one and your question about and materials :blink: not enough sleep :blink: – no change in Wicked Edge’s assembly and quality checking processes on the stones due to high demand and the manufacturing process is the same as well (no changes in specs etc and TA has been making these stones all along). Demand has been high and increasing for almost a year and a half on these and from my conversations yesterday with Kathy and Kyle, the shipping pace is basically the same as in the past. It has been a cycle of backorder and ship since holidays 2010 when sales volume skyrocketed and kept going up at amazing rates since. Hope that helps some –
Best 🙂
Bob[/quote]
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the response along with the everyone else’s. I agree the process used by the supplier is the same, however, I’m not so sure about the quality of the material. Obviously there are very visible differences in the stones with very different results by users of the current batch compared to the previous batch. (from what I have seen and read about)I have no doubt that WE will take care of the issues at hand and resolve any issues with current users, they have very reliable customer service measures in place and a great team of peeps 🙂 that work hard to insure the integrity of the products.
Thanks Again and I’ll just see wait to see what’s in the box when it arrives!

[Steven Pinson]

Hey All,

Just wanted to post up my shot of the new ceramics (1200/1600) that I received 05/23/2012 so I was not using other photos that were not of my stones. As far as cleaning a ceramic material … cool distilled water should pose no threat at all.

I have to say: I have never seen other ceramics exhibit pitting and I have used quite a bit in the materials science arena over the years.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/SPIN1963/1600GritCeramic.jpg

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m599/SPIN1963/1200GritCeramic.jpg

[D K]

Thanks everyone so far for all the great responses.

I have found my biggest issues is that there is pitting on the sides of the stones which makes the edges inconsistent. If I run my fingernail up and down the side of the ceramics (especially the 1200, not so much the 1600) my nail catches all along the edge. I am pretty sure this is causing microchipping in my blade. It was mentioned that the pitting doesn’t affect the surface because the rest of the area is flat which makes sense but my concern is when I move the paddles just a little bit so they are not flush when sharpening and it tears up the edge.

Has anyone else run into a similar problem? I have also sharpened about 10 knives so far and there is not better results.

THANKS!

[wickededge]

Hi guys,
I just got back last night and I’m starting to catch up on this thread. I’ll continue reading it through and then do some follow up to examine the stones which came in right as I was leaving. Of course we’ll back the product 100%. I can say confidently that the powdery surface is normal and not an issue. As far as pitting, that seems new and I’ll definitely investigate. I’ll also look into the wear issue – I’m still using the same set of stones I’ve had for several years and they have not worn, so if rapid wear is going on, that is new. Please stay tuned and bear with me as I catch up.
-Clay

-Clay

[wickededge]

The pitting I see in these images seems strange. Normally there is a slightly mottled appearance to the stones so you’d see white material where the blue holes are. I’ll definitely check it out.

-Clay

[wickededge]

Hello all,
I have a question for those of you that have your ceramic paddles. Now I am aware that they are going to have a little bit of a break in period but mine really seem to be very coarse. My 1200 grit stones sound like 80 grit sand paper and have numerous easily visible pores in them my 1600 grit stones arent as bad but its almost like looking at the face of the moon.:( And I actually have some chips in the sides of my 1200 grit stones. Is this normal for the WEPS ceramics? They dont really seem to react or perform like any other ceramic stone I have ever used. Granted the only one I have ever used was the one in my GATCO sharpener I had previously.

This seems odd, not normal. When I get in on Tuesday after the holiday, I’ll study the stones we have in and inspect them. I’ll also mount up a set and do a bunch of sharpening to see how it goes.

-Clay

[Dennis Hibar]

The pitting I see in these images seems strange. Normally there is a slightly mottled appearance to the stones so you’d see white material where the blue holes are. I’ll definitely check it out.

Clay,

Thanks. Yes I am familiar with the slightly mottled appearance … since that is how I would describe what my rounded ceramic stones look like (mottled … but completely smooth with no chips or pitted. These new 1200/1600 stones are (as you can see in the pics I posted) definitely pitted (you can catch a fingernail, pin head, or toothpick on the pits).

[William Gibbons]

Clay,

I also have the pitting issues on the ceramics I recently received. Let me know if I need to send you pictures.

Will

[Bill K]

Hi Clay

welcome back 🙂

thanks for looking into this issue. hope you take time to enjoy the weekend.

[Ziggy]

Mine are from an older batch.
Looking at them yes, there are pits, I can even put a pen tip in them easily.
Does it effect them, from my experience … not really.
Once again, I thihink there is enough surface area to compensate, especially with verical and horizontal motion, and it should not effect the performance. Kinda like my beat up strops 🙂
Yes, I do need to rub them together ocassionally and also soften the edges, but I expect each and every sharpening medium to have its quirks.

I do a lot of sharpening on belts also … all are not the same … I think an answer may be that you have to adapt unless its extreme. If its past adaptability, another story.

One of the things with the WEPS, its so far to the acurate extreme, that you notice oddities that would be ignored using other systems.

I used to go crazy over 1/2 a degree difference between sides … now, not so much.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dennis Hibar]

I do a lot of sharpening on belts also … all are not the same … I think an answer may be that you have to adapt unless its extreme. If its past adaptability, another story.
One of the things with the WEPS, its so far to the acurate extreme, that you notice oddities that would be ignored using other systems.
I used to go crazy over 1/2 a degree difference between sides … now, not so much.
Just my 2 cents.

Zig,

Let me bring the total to 4 cents. If pitting on the ceramics is not supposed to be … then it is a defect … plain and simple. Even Clay has indicated that his very old and heavily used ceramics do not show any signs of pitting. Perhaps with all the pressure which was being placed on the supplier to get these ceramics to Clay to fulfill the large number of long term back-orders which existed led to shortcuts or other unknown variables in the production process. Anyway, we are not talking about a simple difference in something like color … we are talking about a defect (whether it be minor or potentially major). No one should have to adapt to accommodate a defect, regardless of whether something is major or minor. In any event, I am sure Clay will get to the bottom of this.

[Ziggy]

I do a lot of sharpening on belts also … all are not the same … I think an answer may be that you have to adapt unless its extreme. If its past adaptability, another story.
One of the things with the WEPS, its so far to the acurate extreme, that you notice oddities that would be ignored using other systems.
I used to go crazy over 1/2 a degree difference between sides … now, not so much.
Just my 2 cents.

Zig,

Let me bring the total to 4 cents. If pitting on the ceramics is not supposed to be … then it is a defect … plain and simple. Even Clay has indicated that his very old and heavily used ceramics do not show any signs of pitting. Perhaps with all the pressure which was being placed on the supplier to get these ceramics to Clay to fulfill the large number of long term back-orders which existed led to shortcuts or other unknown variables in the production process. Anyway, we are not talking about a simple difference in something like color … we are talking about a defect (whether it be minor or potentially major). No one should have to adapt to accommodate a defect, regardless of whether something is major or minor. In any event, I am sure Clay will get to the bottom of this.[/quote]

Dennis, as a defect, I agree totally. I was assuming pits are the norm. Adaptability as in I work with diamond paddles diffrently than ceramics, not the same game.
If pits are not meant to be there and is a negative, than pits are not supposed to be there period.

[Author]

Posts