Building the “Ultimate” sharpening system

[developer (ChrisB)]

I really want to say, “hello, knife people”, but I’m pretty sure that phrase has already been coined… So, hello edge junkies, I’m the a “new guy” here so please bear with me…

So the story goes a little something like this… I’ve been into knives since I can remember, I have been looking at and researching ALL avenues of approach to get into sharpening for personal use as well as a side business, and that has landed me right here. I come from the school of the “buy once, cry once” mentality, so I’m here to do it right the first time, so that’s one of the reasons I need you guys…

After over a year of holding off, I’m about ready to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on the Wicked Edge Gen 3, but I know it doesn’t just stop there, I need the extras to go with it. So that brings me to my main question, what extra stones, ceramics, strops, cubes, cases, loupes/ microscopes, etc should I buy with it to create the ULTIMATE system that would stand up to even the toughest scrutiny? My thought process behind the decision to go “all out” on this system is simple, if I have the best equipment, and something goes wrong, 9 times out of 10 I know exactly where to look to fix the problem, you look at the operator in that case, and with an open mind that can be corrected.

Thanks for bearing with me on my first post, and thanks for any help in advance. Sincerely, Nomad spelled backwards.

Working to make knife.wickededgeusa.com a great forum!

[Mark76]

Welcome to the forum, Nomad! I think you’ve already made the best basic choice: the WEPS.

If you want to go all out, the question is in what areas.

– The Gen 3 is the most user-friendly one. Changing knives is a breeze. However, from what I read, the PP2 is a little better at clamping very thin, very thick or oddly shaped knives. I don’t own the Gen 3, so take this with a grain of salt, but there’s a lot of info about it on this forum).

– As for stock stones, you obviously want to get the diamond stones. They’re the best in the entire business. The ceramic stones are also good, but you may not need both of them. The 1600/1200 ones are, for me, the basic ones. The micro fines give you extra power, but you might need them.

– Waterstones. WE sells the Chosera stones (Naniwa Pro or so, as they’re called nowadays). These’d be my first waterstones if I’d start again. They leave great refined and polished edges. If you want to go for mirror edges, nothing beats the 5K/10K stones

– More waterstones. Ken Sharp sells Shapton stones for the WE. They’re harder than the Chosera stones and go to up much higher grits. They’re also splash-and-go. If you want the most refined edges, they’re your choice. But honestly, I only see the difference between a 16K stone and a 30K one on a straight razor.

– Ken Schwartz may also be able supply you with natural stones.

– Strops. That’s a tricky issue, since it involves both the strops themselves and the stropping compounds. But what I like are the WE pastes on leather. This gives great polishing action. They work well on balsa too, and then you don’t run the risk of rounding your edges. For the really fine work (< 1 micron) I'd recommend the Hand American and Ken Schwartz compounds, both available from Chef Knives to Go. USe them on a kangaroo leather strop or a nanocloth one.

– An then there are diamond lapping films. I have no experience with them, but the reactions on this forum are usually quite good. Maybe someone else can tell about them.

Good luck with all your choices! Don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[developer (ChrisB)]

Thanks for the help Mark!! I was beginning to wonder if anybody would reply… Sounds like you’ve done this a time or two and I appreciate it. The only other question I have at the moment is what stone progression produces the best results? I would guess the last 4 or 5 steps are the most controversial and I’m just wondering if a certain progression has been established as “best”.?.? Thanks again for all your help Mark.

Working to make knife.wickededgeusa.com a great forum!

[CliffCurry]

Welcome to the Forum Nomad!

I apologize as I thought Id replied to your post a few days ago as well… :S

As Mark said there are many choices to build the “Ultimate System” and many of those choices are subjective, really they are all personal preferences learned through the process of experimentation.

To me this has been the best part of learning to sharpen, and learning how to use the Wicked Edge. Just off hand Id break it down as follows:

1) Technique – There are many different styles people use as they progress with the stones. Scrubbing, edge leading, edge trailing, tip facing away, etc. Josh and Clay the owner have made very clear videos showing how to utilize the system but others have developed there own.

2) Stones, Strops, and Lapping Films – Mark covered this above but again many choices after the diamonds paddles. My progression has developed over time and trial and error, and is still a work in progress. I have a way the works well for me, but still I try different things. Right now for example Im experimenting with applying different grits to the micro ceramics.

3) WE Sharpener itself – This is your starting point for purchase. The new Gen3 is amazing and offers easy of use and clamping. The Gen3 is an awesome “clamp n go” setup. The PP2 has been around longer and offers different ranges of flexibility but with a steeper learning curve and more setup time involved.

4) Modifications – For myself the best improvements to the base system have come with the addition of extended rod arms…and nylon bushing inserts on both ends of all my paddles to minimize play. Some people have went to amazing levels of engineering to counter bore brass bearings. I simply glued mine on and they work for me.
Mods can be found under https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/forum/mods

5) Accessories – These are the final things that tie the whole system together and like a cook in the kitchen allow you to do your best work. First must have is an angle cube, this allows for precise angle adjustments. Next Id say(personal preference) would by a tormek small knife jig, it allows for a variety of mounting options with small to medium blades. Lastly Id say would be a USB scope. There are many of them out there varying in price. I picked up a no name x400 scope for under $20 but you get what you pay for. Optionally there are many decent pocket scopes for under $10 and of course loupes etc.

Hope this helps as you start your process down the rabbit hole of sharpening…keep us posted as you progress! There are many on here who will be willing to jump in and offer advice, more so Id guess after you actually have started the work. Enjoy the journey and Aloha!!! 😉

1 user thanked author for this post.

Alan

[Mark76]

The only other question I have at the moment is what stone progression produces the best results? I would guess the last 4 or 5 steps are the most controversial and I’m just wondering if a certain progression has been established as “best”.?.? Thanks again for all your help Mark.

Well, again it depends what sort of edge you’re looking for. Different people use different progressions, for example depending on how toothy they want their edge. But if I want a really polished mirror edge, my progression is usually diamond stones (starting with 100 grit if you’re reprofiling) -> micro fine coarse stone -> 1600 grit stone -> 1200 grit stone -> micro fine fine stone -> 5K Chosera -> 10K Chosera.

If you want to do it a little cheaper, you can leave out the micro fine stones. And some people use the 2K/3K Chosera stones before the 5K one.

But this is a rabbit hole… You’d really have to try for yourself what you like best. If you’re just starting with the WEPS I’d simply start with the stock stones and then gradually add some stones you think you like best.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[M1rrorEdge]

How are things going for you?  Any updates?

Eddie Kinlen
M1rror Edge Sharpening Service, LLC
+1(682)777-1622

[tcmeyer]

Hi Damon:

Mark and Cliff are among the most qualified around here and I would take their advise confidently.  That said, I will confuse you with a different set of recommendations.

If you plan to produce mirror edges, I would take a different route and avoid the mess associated with waterstones.  I use only diamond film and have retired my ceramic stones.  Clay has noted that he can skip the ceramic grits and go directly from 1000-grit diamond to 6-micron film.  I’ve tried it and it works beautifully.

If mirror edges aren’t of interest to you, you might consider the three pairs of diamond stones (100/200, 400/600, 800/1000 and the 1200/1600 ceramic.

I currently have four pairs of film blocks.  I could easily live with three: 6/3; 1.5/1.0; 0.5/0.1 micron.

I have both the original and Gen 3 vises.  I like them both, but I have at least one small knife that simply won’t clamp in the Gen 3 vise.  I think most guys here would go for the Gen 3, but as for me, I’m not so sure.  Maybe WE will consider selling a Gen I vise to owners of Gen 3 vises to cover for those oddballs.

I have a bunch of loupes but never use them, since I have a USB microscope.  It’s connected to an old laptop and I have a 21″ widescreen monitor sitting next to my workstation.  Almost any of the low-cost ‘scopes will work, but I recommend something in the 200X range.  Mine is the Celestron which goes for about $84.

3 users thanked author for this post.

Alan, dulledge, M1rrorEdge

[Mark76]

I support Tom’s recommendation of the diamond films. I have not retired my Chosera stones, but do use diamond films most of the time nowadays if I want a mirror edge. They’re very easy to use and very dependable.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

1 user thanked author for this post.

dulledge

[Mjcollier]

Not to hijack this post but I’m wondering about the diamond films. I have the diamond stones that come with the Gen 3 plus the 1200/1600 stones and then the 10/14 strops ordered to come with the Gen 3. Would I be better served by canceling the strops and getting the films? If so what grit films and how many sets to achieve a mirror polish?

[tcmeyer]

I have the super-fine and micro-fine ceramics, but don’t use them anymore.  I went to film very early on – before WE offered it, so I made my own blocks, using brass as the platens.  I started out with glass, but I don’t think I did a very good job of polishing edges and they had a tendency to leave scratches where they shouldn’t be.  The WE blocks with aluminum platens would be an excellent replacement for the brass.  Just lap the platens using sandpaper on a flat surface like glass or granite.  I used 400, 600 and 800 grit sandpaper.

I had two pairs of strops, but traded them away here on this forum.

My current set is as follows:  100/200, 400/600, 800/1000, 15/9 mu, 6/3 mu, 1.5/1.0 mu, 0.5/0.1 mu.  Based on recent discoveries, I could drop the 15/9 micron films, so three pairs of the aluminum or glass blocks would suffice.

The film lasts longer than one would think.  When they get dirty, they clean up very nicely with alcohol.  Most of the time, I replace a film because it’s damaged (badly sliced) or contaminated.  Each is of course my fault.  I remember replacing only one pair of strips because they were worn out.  This was easy to recognize because the clear, shiny mylar backing was visible.

There are other suppliers out there if you do a little searching.  8-1/2 by 11 sheets should yield 22 strips, each 5.5″ by 3/4″, but I encourage you to buy at least one complete set of strips from Wicked Edge, just out of loyalty.  They come in pre-cut in sheets of 10 strips each.  How many vendors let you discuss openly on their forums about how to avoid buying their products?

So far as I know, all the diamond film is made by 3M and all have the same color coding, so I don’t expect to find differences in quality.

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