Asian vs European vs Tri bevel convex sharpening

[Jerrie Barber]

I thought I was a fanatic about sharpening until I started reading last night. Wow, a lot of you guys absolutely Rock!!! I am no where near as geeked out about sharpening as I thought. That being said what is the school of thought on these sharpening techniques? I like to whittle hair as much as the next guy, but I also want to have a blade the remains sharp and that does not have to be fooled with every day. The more I read the more confused I have become. So for EDC, in the field, day in and day out use what are the advantages and disadvantages of a straight (Asian) sharpening, a bi-hone or double honed European edge, or a triple honed convex edge?
Feel free to correct and instruct. Specifically I am carrying an Esee Izula (I have a job that allows such carry), and or a Hinderer XM-18 3.5. Obviously I want them both to be as cutting, whittling, hair splitting sharp as they can be and effective for every day use.

[Leo James Mitchell]

Hi Jerrie
I am not sure I understand the terms Asian Edge etc. but I think I know what you are asking, so I will give you my 2 cents worth. The Izula is an excellent little knife and the 1095 tool steel takes and retains a razor edge fairly easily. The guys at ESEE use a 20 degree per side edge and that is good. I use a 22 degree per side edge for a long lasting and very strong edge. But better still is a convex edge starting at 18 degrees then moving to 20 degrees and then finishing with 22 degrees per side. Somewhere on the WE site there are instructions for doing this kind of edge and there have been many posts on how to do it, but in essence it is basically a fully developed 18 degree per side edge and then a lightly developed 20 and the 22 degree per side edge and then the strops are used to blend the 20 and 22 degree shoulders into the 18 degree geometry giving you the convex edge you want. The figure 18, 20 and 22 are just examples…you could start with 16 degrees and work out another edge like 16-18-20. It is fun to play with an I guarantee you that the edge you will get is super sharp, sturdy and long lasting. It will touch up easily with stropping alone for a long time. The edge will just get better and better. If you can’t find the full instructions on the site or among the posts, PM me and I will walk you through it. Better to look it up yourself and try it in various ways…you will learn better that way and you get to know your steel and the WEPS intimately!

Cheers
Leo

[Jerrie Barber]

Thanks Leo
Some of the magazines call a straight grind sharpening an Asian sharpening. Can’t remember which one I was looking at but probably “Tactical Knife”. None the less i am putting a convex sharpening in my Esee right now and will try that for a while. Am excited to see how it all comes out.

[Charles Rich]

This may be helpful.

[cbwx34]

Excellent answer, Leo. I thought of this question when it was posted, and couldn’t come up with an answer that wasn’t a book. 🙂

I might add to check the Database http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_joodb&view=catalog&Itemid=94 and see if your knife or a similar knife is listed. I think there’s a Hinderer in there. Might give you some guidance. (And add yours when your done.)

[Jerrie Barber]

I received my Hinderer the same day I received my Wicked Edge. I sharpened it as soon as it came out of the box, however it was about the fifth knife I sharpened that day. The Hinderer was sharpened at a 15 degree flat ground to polish up to the .5 micron strops. I can and have shaved my neck with that blade. It is nasty sharp. So I guess what is on my mind is am I any better off tho convex that blade? Am I going to loose any of that sharpness? I know what that blade can do now. I can also report that I did re-sharpen my Izula 16-18-20, but went in that progression, in the video above that was suggested, and thanks for posting, Clay went from greatest angle to least angle and filled in between. Not sure if one method is better than another. Thanks guys for sharing you time and knowledge and anything you see hear that you can speak to would be wonderful. I am greatful.

[Jerrie Barber]

O. K. folks if you would like, I have sharpened the Hinderer using the “Allison” technique shown on the Sebenza video. I was already at 15 degrees so I mounted back up and re-beveled at 19 degrees then by degree worked my way back down to 15. I used the micro fine WEPS ceramic and only used the white side which is .6 micron. I used about 50 strokes per side per degree. Once I was back to 15 degrees I used strops 5 micron, 3.5 micron (which came with the pro pack I, then moved on to the 1 and .5 micron dtrops. I know that I was going backward but I wanted to gently blend the facets of each degree. I added one step to Clays technique which is probably over kill but I came back out to 19 degrees and stropped again with the .5 micron and viola for only the third time in my life I whittled hair. I will be putting this through the paces over the next several days to see how the edge holds up.
I hope to get some pictures up ASAP.

[cbwx34]

Thanks for the update,,,, sounds like you know what you’re doing! I think working from the high to low angle results in less metal removal… If you go low to high you’re constantly removing metal from the edge, and would also have to create a bigger bevel to fit the next one in. Going low to high is done if you just want a micro bevel at the very edge. What you did in this post sounds about perfect… there is some evidence in Clay’s microscope pics that stropping at the sharpening angle, in your case 19 deg. rounds the edge over (this usually translates to, “the edge lost its bite”), so you may want to watch for that.

Looking forward to pics and to how it performs… this is the info that always interests me. 🙂

Thanks!

[Jerrie Barber]

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[Jerrie Barber]

Anyone have any suggestions on posting pictures? As you can tell the last group did not post at all. Per chance is there a limit on pixels?

[wickededge]

Anyone have any suggestions on posting pictures? As you can tell the last group did not post at all. Per chance is there a limit on pixels?

There is though I’m not sure what it is. I’ll check with our webmaster to find out. I resize mine to 1500px wide and that works great.

-Clay

[Josh]

Thanks for the update Jerry! May I offer you a suggestion on posting pics? Get a gmail account, then sign up for Picasa web albums[/url]. Sign in and upload your pictures. Then you can post them… send me a pm w/ your phone number if you want I’ll walk you through it – its super easy after you do it the first time and you get a gig of online storage for free. You can post some different size pics… as below.

From Large:

To Small:

CBW, I think you are exactly right… in fact, it may be worth its own thread – discussing the finer points of convexing and which technique is best 😀 I have not convexed too many blades, and haven’t done any of my own because the method of going from low to high seems to remove more metal than necessary. On the few I have done I wend reverse, like Jerry, from high to low – but you have to be careful here not to use too low of a grit (which I have learned the hard way, lol). The magic marker trick really seemed to help me here to ensure that I was shaving a little bit of the edge off at a time, on each new facet. The issue I ran into was that I would develop inconsistant “magic marker” widths on the edge of the edge for some reason… I will try to post about it at some point.

No doubt for the most consistancy the original method is better… but it just seems to remove too much metal. Clay, you have any thoughts on this at all? I still want to play around w/ mounting a mouse pad and some PSA lapping films to a WE paddle! 😀 But for whatever reason, I stay WAY too busy, lol. Always seems as if I have a project going on… especially hard w/ 4 young kiddo’s! Anyone else “project” oriented constantly? :silly: :S

[Jerrie Barber]

Hinderer XM-18 3.5

Hinderer XM-18 3.5

[Author]

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