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1200 / 1600 Ceramic stones disappeared from site?

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  • #4670
    Craig Lison
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 2

    I was ready to place an order today but I wanted to include the ceramic 1200 / 1600 stones, and I have found that they have disappeared from the products page:

    http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84

    Are they going to be back, or is this permanent?

    Just kind of confused as to what’s going on.

    #4671
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2939

    Thanks for asking. We’ve been working with the manufacturer to straighten a couple of things out but hope to start carrying them again soon. The earliest we’d have them is in 6 weeks.

    I was ready to place an order today but I wanted to include the ceramic 1200 / 1600 stones, and I have found that they have disappeared from the products page:

    http://www.wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=84

    Are they going to be back, or is this permanent?

    Just kind of confused as to what’s going on.

    -Clay

    #4672
    Alex Doherty
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 10

    Check out Bob Nash at Oldawan.com I think he has them. I just ordered a WE from him and the customer service was awesome.

    #4674
    Tony Pettersen
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 29

    id say drop them for now, i bought mine thinking they would be hard like ceramics but they are more “chalklike”, they absorbe water and sometimes catch the edge and a small cloud of dust shoots from them. and the edge will need more worke from that..
    i havent tried the other ceramic but it seems to be ceramic like from pictures..

    remember to get enough strops 😉 that is one thing i regret not ordering more of on my first order

    #4789
    Craig Lison
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 2

    I went ahead with my order from Wicked Edge and also placed an order for the 1200 / 1600 stones from here[/url], where they are available now.

    I received them today, and I have to wonder about the 1200 side. The 1600 side looks correct, but the 1200 side is porous. I also rubbed the blunt side of a cheap pair of scissors across the 1200 stone, and (as TonyPettersen mentions above) it actually removed a little of the stone. I’m confused how such a stone will be able to cut steel in micro increments for sharpening as it seems to actually be softer than cheap steel? (By comparison I’ve had the Spyderco Sharpmaker for some time and those stones aren’t like this.)

    As you can tell I’m a novice when it comes to professional sharpening so I’m not sure if I have a bad stone or if I just have a lack of knowledge.

    Interested to hear any input! 🙂

    #4793
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2939

    This is a good question, one that a lot of people ask and that we’ve gone back and forth with the manufacturer about. These stones are very different than what most people expect yet they are extremely effective. The coarse blue stones take time to break in. They have what is called a “kiln layer” that needs to be removed. The easiest way is to just use them and let the powder come off. Once you get them broken in, you’ll be pleasantly surprised how well they clean up the edge after the diamond stones.

    I went ahead with my order from Wicked Edge and also placed an order for the 1200 / 1600 stones from here[/url], where they are available now.

    I received them today, and I have to wonder about the 1200 side. The 1600 side looks correct, but the 1200 side is porous. I also rubbed the blunt side of a cheap pair of scissors across the 1200 stone, and (as TonyPettersen mentions above) it actually removed a little of the stone. I’m confused how such a stone will be able to cut steel in micro increments for sharpening as it seems to actually be softer than cheap steel? (By comparison I’ve had the Spyderco Sharpmaker for some time and those stones aren’t like this.)

    As you can tell I’m a novice when it comes to professional sharpening so I’m not sure if I have a bad stone or if I just have a lack of knowledge.

    Interested to hear any input! 🙂

    -Clay

    #4796
    cbwx34
    Participant
    • Topics: 57
    • Replies: 1505

    I wonder if it’s similar to what DMT writes about their ceramics…

    Why is there “smoke” when I first use my ceramic sharpener?

    Break in of Unbreakable Ceramic Surfaced Product
    DMT‘s unbreakable ceramic sharpener is produced using a patented process called Micro Arc Oxidation. This process is used to transform the surface of aluminum into an unbreakable, wear resistant ceramic (Aluminum Oxide) abrasive.

    The Process

    The oxide layer literally grows inward into the Aluminum by approximately 75% and outward by about 25%. Coating thicknesses can vary between 30 and 150 microns (or approximately 0.001” to 0.005”) depending on how the coating process is carried out. The process produces a two layer coating of ceramic; the outer layer (Gamma) being somewhat granular and chalky and the inner layer (Alpha) a very dense and hard ceramic abrasive.

    How This Affects My Sharpener
    Sometimes some of the Gamma phase layer remains on the product’s surface until the sharpener is used. It is not unusual to see traces of this outer granular Gamma phase layer slough off during your first few sharpening strokes. It looks like smoke. Do not be concerned by this. It is to be expected and considered normal due to the two layer base structure of the ceramic. After the first few sharpenings, this outer layer will be completely removed, leaving you a very hard, long wearing unbreakable ceramic sharpener which will provide the ultimate in edge refinement.
    http://www.dmtsharp.com/resources/dmt-faq/#why-is-there-smoke-when-i-first-use-my-ceramic-sharpener

    #4798
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2939

    That’s really interesting. The manufacturing process is different but result of the top layer appears similar.

    I wonder if it’s similar to what DMT writes about their ceramics…

    Why is there “smoke” when I first use my ceramic sharpener?

    Break in of Unbreakable Ceramic Surfaced Product
    DMT‘s unbreakable ceramic sharpener is produced using a patented process called Micro Arc Oxidation. This process is used to transform the surface of aluminum into an unbreakable, wear resistant ceramic (Aluminum Oxide) abrasive.

    The Process

    The oxide layer literally grows inward into the Aluminum by approximately 75% and outward by about 25%. Coating thicknesses can vary between 30 and 150 microns (or approximately 0.001” to 0.005”) depending on how the coating process is carried out. The process produces a two layer coating of ceramic; the outer layer (Gamma) being somewhat granular and chalky and the inner layer (Alpha) a very dense and hard ceramic abrasive.

    How This Affects My Sharpener
    Sometimes some of the Gamma phase layer remains on the product’s surface until the sharpener is used. It is not unusual to see traces of this outer granular Gamma phase layer slough off during your first few sharpening strokes. It looks like smoke. Do not be concerned by this. It is to be expected and considered normal due to the two layer base structure of the ceramic. After the first few sharpenings, this outer layer will be completely removed, leaving you a very hard, long wearing unbreakable ceramic sharpener which will provide the ultimate in edge refinement.
    http://www.dmtsharp.com/resources/dmt-faq/#why-is-there-smoke-when-i-first-use-my-ceramic-sharpener%5B/quote%5D

    -Clay

    #4841
    Craig Lison
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 2

    OK, sounds good! I did manage to (finally) find the other thread where it’s recommended to spray some water with a tiny bit of dish soap onto the 1200 / 1600 ceramics when using them.

    #4896
    Chris
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 351

    We’ve been working with the manufacturer to straighten a couple of things out

    Hi Clay,

    If I may ask, is this a manufacturing quality or design issue?

    Are the new ones going to be different in some way.

    Thanks.

    #4898
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2939

    Hi Billabong,

    It’s been a formula issue and business practices issue. Two batches ago, the stones were overly powdery. The still performed well once the kiln layer was removed but a lot of people were concerned about them. The manufacturer wasn’t willing to take full responsibility for the quality, so we’ve being going round a bit about that as well as tightening up the formula. We’ve also added a step where they vibrate the stones in house to remove the kiln layer before shipping them to us.

    We’ve been working with the manufacturer to straighten a couple of things out

    Hi Clay,

    If I may ask, is this a manufacturing quality or design issue?

    Are the new ones going to be different in some way.

    Thanks.

    -Clay

    #4902
    Chris
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 351

    Hi Clay.

    Thanks for the info, I just ordered some from Howes Knife Shop.

    I can live with the powder etc. now I know what to expect.

    Really keen to get my name on the list for the new arms.
    Sent an email to WE sales, hoping for a reply soon?

    Billabong.

    #5615
    Chris
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 351

    tightening up the formula. We’ve also added a step where they vibrate the stones in house to remove the kiln layer before shipping them to us.

    Sure enough mine are chalky too, they chip along the edges very quickly and are very light compared to the micro’s I also purchased.

    Why are the two ceramics so different Clay?
    A different manufacturer or process?

    Can we expect the new 1200/1600’s to be more like the micro’s?

    #5617
    Mike Gervais
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 12

    Billabong do you consider these to be defective to the point where you are asking for replacements?

    #5618
    Chris
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 351

    Not at all, they work fine so far.
    I was aware when I ordered them.

    Just wondering what the changes Clay talks of might bring.

    edit – Considering the coarse side of the microfines are coarser than both sides of the 1200/1600’s.
    I can’t see why the new 1200/1600’s couldn’t be the same quality/finish as the micro’s are.
    Unless they are made by a different manufacturer or process.

    The micro fines are of an exceptional quality.

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