Re: Ceramic Paddles

[Robert Nash]

Hi Everyone :cheer: –
Fallen behind a bit on this conversation but I’ll chime in and see if I can be of any help at all. It may be long since I’ve been out for a couple days here…

First – I want to point out that it seems right now like these issues are only affecting a very limited number of stones in this last production run, since the posts on this thread are pretty limited in number and some people who just got them are reporting no issues – Whew! And hopefully only a few of them are as bad as Bud’s were.

Next, as to cleaning these and most ceramics. Be sure not to use any thing warm to clean the Wicked Edge ceramic handles. They are assembled using a hot glue adhesive so if the stone heats enough you can release it from the handle tray; easy enough to reattach but not so great if it falls:ohmy:. Also, Wicked Edge doesn’t recommend using water to clean them (never tried it on mine so can’t say about them bubbling like neutralizing an acid with baking soda – though that seems very odd and no one else has mentioned it). I’m sure there is probably a post on maintenance hidden somewhere here in the forum though I haven’t been able to find it – what they do recommend is using a rubber eraser, pink school type works great but you can also get a superaser (brand name) or Super Rust Eraser. Neither of them or the pink eraser is going to get stuff out of the pits very well, though they or the pink eraser will clean up the remainder of your ceramics really nicely.

So here are my thoughts and experience:

My WE ceramic stones look much like razoredge’s stones (nice pics by the way), like they might be pitted but it is color variation in the ceramic and they are totally smooth. I’ve been using them for a while now and no cupping. Other items I discuss more below.

Pitting issue – big Thanks to David and Dennis for posting up some photos as that has been super helpful – someone said like the moon and that is an apt description. This pitting in my experience is not normal in these stones and in my time at Wicked Edge and with my customers since no one has mentioned this issue. (Clay has seen many more production runs so perhaps it has come up in the past though I talked with Kay today and she doesn’t recall it). That being said – I agree with Zig that it should not affect the performance of the stone. Many other stones and plates have discontinuous abrasive – many DMT diamond plates, Atoma diamond plates are two good examples. Since the pits are surrounded by surface level ceramic which is moving across the blade, the honing effect should be the same as if it were continuous. I’d watch them to make sure it doesn’t seem they are getting larger or more numerous though – particularly if you continue to get a lot of powder off the stones. If that were happening, I’d contact Wicked Edge and see what they recommend.

Roughness – I don’t really recall if there was some roughness to my stones when I first used them, if there is it went away fairly quickly. Rubbing together as Zig suggested may accelerate the smoothing if you do have some rough ones. If it doesn’t smooth up with use, I’d call or email Wicked Edge to see what they are suggesting – right now it is probably going to be to give them more break in time. I would thing that after 10- 15 knives you shouldn’t be experiencing any roughness.

Powdering issue – the stones when they are new do frequently have some powdery finish that comes off on your fingers and on the knife (WE cleans the back sides on assembly to make sure the adhesive is bonding to the stone). In my experience that powder goes away pretty quickly. The hardness of Wicked Edge’s ceramics doesn’t compare to a lot of other superfine ceramics. I think Spyderco rates their ceramics at better than 9 on the mohs scale (9.3 if my memory is working), I don’t know the manufacturing spec on WE’s stones but I imagine that they are in the mid 8 range (knives can be as high as 8 I think), so Spyderco’s are about twice as hard. On these stones it is possible to shave off the material with your knife edge as you work, particularly working a leading edge stroke (into the knife). I notice this most frequently on my curved ceramics trying to work them into a tight spot or working the corners of my flat stones. Working trailing edge (up and out) I may have gotten some powder at first but it went away quickly as I don’t really recall it. One thing for sure, the vitrified bonding in the stone shouldn’t be having the issue that Bud described – out of flat after only 12 knives:( . If you are having an issue that dramatic then call Wicked Edge and have them warranty the stones for you. Otherwise it sounds like from roadkill’s conversation with Kyle, they are saying to give them time to break in (just keep an eye on them for cupping is my advice).

Chipping issue – Dustin is reporting some chipping on his edges. It is certainly possible this is happening from the ceramics though I haven’t experienced this myself. There are other possible causes too most likely of which in my mind is that what is happening is that the ceramics are uncovering or exposing chips that are already there – much like what happens with scratches in the bevels – the finer grits and strops often uncover the deeper scratches that have been hidden by earlier work. (There is a really great photo series showing that effect on the forum – another one I couldn’t remember where it was to link). I just recently had a customer who was having the same apparent problem and he came up with a great test to see if it was the ceramics or an artifact of earlier sharpening or use. Mitch sharpened through the diamonds, ceramics and his 3.5 strops. Then he went back and with his 600 grit stone, removed the cutting edge much like Clay does with the file in one of his videos. His technique was to leave the knife in the clamp with all the same settings, then lay the stone on top of the cutting edge and lightly run it up and down the blade until it would no longer catch or cut anything. Then he used his 600 grit diamonds to quickly raise up a burr from both sides then progressed through his 800/1000 and 1200/1600 and checked the edge. In his case the chips were then gone. Don’t know if you’ll have the same result, but it could help us zero in on the ceramics as the potential culprit. (also a fast way to get out those little chips you can feel when cutting or with an edge tester but can’t see easily if you find you have some that won’t go away)

Last is a technique suggestion following on Zigs. The ceramics definitely have a different feel from the other stones. For me, I find it to work best to apply really no pressure other than the weight of the stone leaning on the knife. I do this on all grits after I have created the cutting edge – particularly in the higher grits my pressure gets lighter and lighter (with exception of strops depending upon circumstances). So I am basically just lifting the stone across the blade. I only really apply pressure if I am focusing on a rough spot that won’t go away, or am trying to re-raise a burr. This is one of the real advantages of the Wicked Edge over Edge Pro and a lot of other systems – it is really easy to be light and easy on the edge as you are not lifting the knife or the stone. I found that if I used too much pressure later in my sharpening the edges would sometimes be completely ruined and I’d have to back up and start again. It also helps prevent getting multiple facets on the bevel.

Well – that was a lot:P, and hopefully useful. Just remember that Wicked Edge stands behind the product 100% so if after some more work and breaking in, the ceramics just aren’t giving you the results you want contact them. I’m also available by mobile 970-903-9288

And just to confirm, Clay is out of the office with no internet back sometime next week so I’m sure he’ll chime in then too. I’m off to a show for the weekend so won’t be back on the forum much ’til Tuesday but I’ll try to follow up then to see what is happening and jump back in!

Bob :side: