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Newbie with Wicked Edge questions.

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  • #22455
    Brian
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 2

    Hi everyone, i’m new here to the forum and a greenhorn owner of the Wicked Edge sharpening system. I’m just looking for some tips and advice on the sharpening system. So far it’s done well for me, i’ve sharpened less than 10 knives thus far. My method is creating a burr on a 400 grit stone for starters on both sides, once that”s created, i’m working through the higher grit stones with about 40 alternating strokes per side. I go through 400, 600, 800 diamond stones, then 1200 and 1600 ceramic, then 2000 and 2500 grit sandpaper strips. Lastly i finish with 5.0 and 3.5 micron strops. So far i’ve gotten a good edge, but i’m not at the ‘wicked’ edge i thought i would have. What kind of pointers can you share with me? Do you guys move your stones on and away from the blade, or on and inwards to the blade? i’ve experienced both ways and see no big difference. Do you folks create a burr with each stone as you go up? what am i missing here?…. I am aware that there is a break in time required and wonder if i’m just not there yet. Just sharpening a few buck and kershaw knives that i own. So, i’m all ears folks! Thanks in advance for any advice shared. Cheers, hvychev77

    #22458
    Zamfir
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 346

    Ohhh boy. Yup. All kinda of questions pop up..the more you use the WE you will start to have other questions.
    I highly suggest checking all of this out:
    http://www.wickededgeusa.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
    And take the time and watch some utube vids. it is worth the time for sure. I really like this one from Josh..

    There are more here:
    https://knife.wickededgeusa.com/forum/getting-started/13191-the-video-thread?limitstart=0&start=10

    #22460
    CliffCurry
    Participant
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 461

    Firstly Welcome to Club or as I call it “The Rabbit Hole of Infinite Learning”. :blink: You’ve got the practical application of how to just get something sharp, then there’s the science of metals and abrasions, and the observation on a micro scale, and finally what I think of as the artistic side with buffing, polishing and shaping. Piece of Cake! B)

    At a very basic level I’ve found that just doing a set number of passes with each grit wasn’t enough. Different steels, grits, pressures & techniques require that I look & feel at what is going on down there. Good lighting is a must and if needed you can do the sharpie marker on that primary bevel between each grit just to make sure you are covering from bevel to apex(watch that apex edge for hidden sharpie mark there).

    I have a pair of high power reading glasses($3 at drug store), everything is blurry until Im within a few inches of the blade. Good enough for inspection on the fly. Also I have a cheapo pocket microscope ($4) that works very well considering the vast sum of money invested.
    http://www.amazon.com/Microscope-Jeweler-Currency-Magnifier-Adjustable/dp/B00AQAANDS/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1420429745&sr=8-11&keywords=100x+pocket+microscope

    Just from rereading you post, if I had to guess at one thing, all other things assumed good, Id say check you sharpness BEFORE going to the strops( You are dropping the angle 2 degrees right?). Clay has done tests that show the edge sharpness actually gets a bit worse if stropping at the same angle. finishing with a 2500 grit strip(edge leading, light pressure to not rip thru if you can handle) should give you a freak your mind razor that will push cut phonebook easy & might even split a hair! :whistle:

    Or, just take the easy way out, finish off by raising up 2 degrees & put 5 light passes on the apex with 1000 grit w/ light pressure for a everyday working micro bevel that will grab n bite skin etc very well. Again welcome to the Forum, there are so many great people here with much more experience than me to help no matter how far down the hole we go! :silly:

    #22461
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Welcome to the forum! Glad to hear you enjoy your WEPS.

    The others have already pointed you to some reading stuff for beginners. Here’s some more, also on stropping: Wiki , FAQ[/url].

    A couple of points that might help you further:

    • – You don’t have to raise a burr with every stone, but you do have to make sure you wipe out the scratches of the previous stone with every stone. I’m not sure 40 passes is enough, it depends on your technique and the steel. A cheap loupe can help you here.
    • – I’m not sure which scale your sandpaper uses, but there are many different scales for grit sizes. Recently a forum member posted a comparison chart . Where I live the FEPA-P scale is used for sandpaper. P2000 and P2500 are in coarseness in between the WEPS 800 and 1000 grit diamond stones. So you might not improve your edges using them after the ceramic stones.
    • – Strops abrade differently than stones do. In general you could say that leather strops with compound of a particular grit size are less agressive than diamond stones with the same grit size. This is because, among others, the diamonds get hidden in the leather in part

    Good luck with your next steps down the rabbit hole! Please let us know how you fare and please don’t hesitate to ask if you have any more questions.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #22462
    Brian
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 2

    Thanks for the replies everyone!! That is some great info., and I appreciate it. I do NOT strop at different angles, and had no idea that I should. So, that’s a place for starters. I’ve already watched a few youtube videos, but probably need to watch some of the more in depth ones as well as get myself some spectacles or a magnified eye piece. I’ll continue to have questions i’m sure. Thanks again and i’ll at least respond with an update on my results when i sit down with the Wicked Edge again. Thanks again everyone. Cheers, hvcyhev77

    #22468
    Brian
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 2

    Hi again, so i’ve played around a bit more this evening with my Wicked Edge again basically with the same results. I’m still not getting the hair splitting sharpness i had hoped. I did go through starting at 400 grit, with a burr on both sides, and work my way up from there. My results at each grit seem to be sharp before moving to the next stones. For some reason, it would appear that the higher grit stones i use, the less sharp my edge is. I know that a toothy edge feels sticky and i can achieve that up to about 600-800 grit. But when i use the ceramics and strops i seem to lose my edge instead of obtaining the really fine sharp edge. I did strop tonight at 2 degree higher angle than where i sharpened, unfortunately with minor improvements. Do you guys use the angle cubes? I was looking at those tonight on amazon and was curious as to how beneficial it would be to have one? I’m moderately frustrated and could use some help. Thanks again everyone. I appreciate your patience and knowledge sharing. hvychev77

    #22470
    CliffCurry
    Participant
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 461

    For the strops you need to drop the angle lower, for example if you were sharpening at 18dps(degrees per side)s up thru the grit progression, then you would DROP the angle to 16dps for the light stropping.

    Seriously tho you should be able to get an edge that will push cut news paper without the strops. I would suggest going up thru the ceramics. Stop. RAISING the angle 2 degrees(from 18 to 20dps) and give 3-5 light passes(2hairs & some air) along the entire edge length, edge leading(down into the blade) heel to tip. That will place a micro bevel on top that is sure to be razor sharp(if you have apexed correctly before hand).

    At least that way you can experience what a sharp edge looks n feels like and give some immediate satisfaction. Try cutting arm hair, news print etc and let us know more about your technique if that doesnt start to work for you. The learning curve is not steep but it still is there. I had trouble getting really sharp until I started finishing my blade with stroke going down into it from back to front like Josh shows in his video. Good luck!

    Aloha,
    Cliff

    #22478
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 38
    • Replies: 2098

    … For some reason, it would appear that the higher grit stones i use, the less sharp my edge is. I know that a toothy edge feels sticky and i can achieve that up to about 600-800 grit. But when i use the ceramics and strops i seem to lose my edge instead of obtaining the really fine sharp edge.. hvychev77

    I suspect, as does Cliff, that you’re smooshing your edge by raising the strop angle, instead of lowering it. That said, consider the following:

    If you have a micrometer or caliper, you might check your stone thicknesses. As you go up in grit, the should be a slight reduction in the stone thickness. By this I mean the distance between the faces of each block. Each progression up in grit should theoretically reduce your grind angle by maybe a tenth of a degree. This should ensure that the next stone will in fact touch the apex. A thicker stone would rest on the bevel at a higher angle an therefor contribute little to the sharpness of the edge. I think I once calculated that a change in thickness of 0.010″ would change the angle by 0.1 degree.

    Of course, thicker stones would not make an edge less sharp, so maybe you have another problem. I don’t see it in your descriptions, but I’m inferring that you’re using the 800/1000 stones in your progression. It may be possible that this set of stones are not completely broken in yet. I recently experienced a set of new 800/1000s which were difficult to break-in and I’m wondering if you have the same problem.

    Not knowing what is happening at a microscopic level is the greatest deterrent of sharpening success. ” I can’t see why I’m not getting this bugger sharp!” There are some very good loupes out there for very little money. You just have to find one that works for you. I recently bought one of the 60X LED-lit currency loupes for about $3, with free shipping from China thru Amazon. Not bad, and probably more like 30X than 60, but it requires you to get your eyeball really close to the edge,. I use a hand-held USB microscope with a 21″ widescreen display. It’s wonderful. If you have an old laptop laying around, you can get a USB camera for less than $100 US. My Celestron focuses at 58X and 160X while resting the camera face on the edge I am inspecting. And I can inspect the whole length in seconds, after every few strokes, if that’s what the job calls for.

    And for Cliff, I add a little note for our personal bonding moment. The “c” in tcmeyer stands for Clifford. Named after my mother’s baby brother, who was off to Europe fighting the Germans at the time. He survived the war, but was lost to cigarettes way too young at age 61. A gentle man among gentlemen. They really were the greatest generation.

    #22480
    CliffCurry
    Participant
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 461

    Even a magnifying glass from the hardware store might help. I love a good mystery so re-read you posts yet again and can feel your pain. I gotta ask, are you literally trying to split a hair? :side:

    Thats a lofty goal for right out of the gate and could be that the knife you are attempting this on or the angles you are choosing are stacked up against you. More info from you about steel type, blade shape, and edge angles may help someone discover what it is that isnt working for ya!

    Keep us posted and will help if can but you’re really gonna need something to see whats going on down there if your diving into the micron realm of sharpness. I never did hear, did you try the micro bevel with the ceramics I mentioned? It might surprise you….Hang in there! B)

    ~Cliff

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