Got my WE base model today and expected the arms to look like the second set (with washers) shown in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55VV_zz8oIQ
The arms look like the first set but seem to have less “play”
A suggestion - add a picture to the website that shows “whats in the box” to reflect what the current parts look like - figure 8/page 12 but an actual digital photo.
Just out of curiosity, did you order through the wicked edge site or did you go the route I initially did and get it on ebay? My base kit also came with the older arms (no washers, pins, etc.). I am thinking the seller had bought up a few and is still going through that older stock. I have since learned my lesson and all the rest of my purchases have been directly through the Wicked Edge site here. I now know I am getting the latest version and the support of all the great people here.
Anyway, I did the washer and screw mods to my arms myself, but since I had all the parts on hand already, it was just a matter of time for me. No expense involved. I did something a little different for the base of the rods where it seems like everyone was/is using a fender washer to keep the paddles from hitting the top of the joint. I just took some 1" self adhesive felt pads, stuck 2 of them together (sticky to sticky), drilled a small hole through them and slide them on the rods. This keeps fillings off the joint and cushions the downstroke as well. It also keeps the rods from dropping to the base when you remove the paddles to the side as the felt pads rest on the cross bar. I can post a pic if you’re interested…
Of course, this is what works for me, your solution might be completely different!
I hope this is of some help to you
[quote quote=“TedS” post=7195]Got my WE base model today and expected the arms to look like the second set (with washers) shown in this video:
The arms look like the first set but have much less “play”[/quote]
The arms that you describe as the “first set” are how they come, from any of the dealers or WE.
They may now be a slighty tighter fit, but mine were not.
Wicked Edge offers a service to “modify” them for you.
I’m guessing if you were to request this at the time of purchase from “Wicked Edge” only, they may be able to do this before they send the WEPS?
Failing that, it’s required to send them in to get done.
The arms are not being modified unless it is requested.
There is no option on the site to add this option to the basket at purchase time.
I would also imagine there will be a cost involved?
Hopefully this thread will add some clarity?
A short comment by Clay here-
[color color=blue]The small amount of play from the stock arms is eliminated and if that little bit of play bothers you, then you might consider the Upgrade Kit.
Another option is to send your stock arms in to us for modification which involves the installation of a washer and replacing the pins with screws to tighten up the joint.[/color]
Perhaps Clay can add something else here, like a cost etc?
Unit came directly from WE. I incorrectly assumed that they would update the stock arms with the washer and screws for all new units or at least add them to the shipment for self install.
I can appreciate charging for the new ball joint arms due to the extra mfg. costs but to ask users to send stock arms to them for small modification (washers and screws) is surely not “user friendly”.
[quote quote=“TedS” post=7233]Unit came directly from WE. I incorrectly assumed that they would update the stock arms with the washer and screws for all new units or at least add them to the shipment for self install.
I can appreciate charging for the new ball joint arms due to the extra mfg. costs but to ask users to send stock arms to them for small modification (washers and screws) is surely not “user friendly”.[/quote]
I guess it’s better than saying, “fix them yourself, we can’t see any problem with them”?
Welcome to the forum Ted!
Just outta curiosity, did you find a problem with the arms you received, or just bothered because you expected something different? The reason I ask is, most users have had excellent results with the standard arms, I think only a few have needed the pin replaced with the washer/screw modification.
I think because a few we’re pretty vocal about the pins, it was perceived as a problem that needed replacing. I’m not sure of the numbers, but I’m guessing that if it was a large number it would be replaced, if for no other reason than it would quickly become time consuming and costly to replace a large number after they’re sent.
If you want/can do it yourself, drop them an email… and they’ll send a set to you.
I have the screws, but have yet to replace the pins, they’ve been working great for me. (I also have the new ball joints, but still trade off with the original arms.)
Hope this helps. Clay pays attention to threads like these, so posting your initial thoughts I’m sure is helpful.
[quote quote=“cbwx34” post=7257]I think only a few have needed the pin replaced with the washer/screw modification.
I think because a few we’re pretty vocal about the pins, it was perceived as a problem that needed replacing. I’m not sure of the numbers, but I’m guessing that if it was a large number it would be replaced, if for no other reason than it would quickly become time consuming and costly to replace a large number after they’re sent.[/quote]
Here is a good read for you cbw.
TOPIC: Linkage play–your technique for consistency?
http://wickededgeusa.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=6&id=1888&Itemid=63
It seems most topics keep coming around again on here.
I’ll keep searching.
Are you counting only the ones that were sent in to Clay?
[quote quote=“cbwx34” post=7257]Welcome to the forum Ted!
Just outta curiosity, did you find a problem with the arms you received, or just bothered because you expected something different? The reason I ask is, most users have had excellent results with the standard arms, I think only a few have needed the pin replaced with the washer/screw modification.
I think because a few we’re pretty vocal about the pins, it was perceived as a problem that needed replacing. I’m not sure of the numbers, but I’m guessing that if it was a large number it would be replaced, if for no other reason than it would quickly become time consuming and costly to replace a large number after they’re sent.
If you want/can do it yourself, drop them an email… and they’ll send a set to you.
I have the screws, but have yet to replace the pins, they’ve been working great for me. (I also have the new ball joints, but still trade off with the original arms.)
Hope this helps. Clay pays attention to threads like these, so posting your initial thoughts I’m sure is helpful.[/quote]Thanks for the welcome.
Don’t know if I have a problem yet because I don’t know if diamonds are “broken in” after working on two
knives which are not as sharp as I expected. I also did not see anything in faq or wiki that provides an estimate of the number of strokes needed to complete the “break in” period.
One BIG concern I have is if an experienced user like jdavis882 had a problem with the original arms, how is a rookie like me supposed to get great results.
One of the main reasons I chose WE over Edgepro is jdavis992’s honest evaluations with the WE shortcomings and improvements.
Yes, he has me fired up a bit suggesting I’m one of only a few also. 
I might get a list together from posts here on this forum.
See how many is a few!
Ted…
Thanks for the reply. I’m not sure there is, or could be an estimate of when the stones are broken in… a majority of it occurs after a couple of knives get a good sharpening… but they’ll still continue to improve over time, especially the finer stones. Maybe after a couple more knives, if you’re still not getting what you expect, you can give some specifics to help figure it out. There’s also some other variables, like how much you spend at each level, etc., that you’ll get more comfortable with as you go.
Chris,
Sorry you’re all fired up!! 
Some of the above was taken out of context. Seems like a tactic to make a point, rather than tell the entire story.
From Clay, same post that was extracted above:
"[i]Personal experience
I just returned from the New York Custom Knife Show where I sharpened several hundred knives over the weekend. I alternated between using the Pro-Pack 2 and the Pro-Pack 1 throughout the show. Neither the customers nor I saw any difference in sharpness or edge appearance from one system to the next. The main difference is in the way the units feel to use, the range of angles available and the ability to adjust the angle to a very fine level with the Pro-Pack 2. All the knives sharpened, regardless of which kit I used, were equally sharp and equally beautiful."[/i]
From Bob Nash, same thread:
[i]"I continue to be extremely happy with my original arms - I own both sets and use them both, but I use my original arms much, much more, getting amazing results with no visible faceting or angle variance showing up. I use my ball joint arms primarily with my choseras and shaptons, to match the angles more precisely.
My advice for folks has been basically - if you are going to be sharpening straight razors or know that you are going to be working with natural/manufactured wetstones that are going to wear with use then you should probably go for the ball joint arms right away. They are also a must for piece of mind if you know you are going to want the most consistent angle you can possibly produce no matter the thickness of the stone or strop you are using. If you aren’t in that group, start with the basic Wicked Edge Sharpener kit. You are going to have more angle consistency and control and you are going to get results that can’t be achieved with nearly any other system out there and you are most likely going to be very happy."[/i]
That is a bit more of the story on the Arms.
There are those among us that are never really satisfied and feel the need to tinker with something good to try to make it “better”. I am in that group BTW. The oringinal arms are plenty good, and will yeild excellent results without modification. I used them on 100s of knives over about a year and a half, and was thrilled with the results, as were my customers.
BTW, checking for discussions on this forum does not give any indication of what the general population that has purchased the WEPS system is concerned about. In this context, I would be willing to bet that the percentage of people owning the WEPS that have worried about arm play with the original joints, much less actually modified them, is very low. This means that even though the subject has come up here and a “few” have posted about it, it does not mean that the difference has been significant to the vast majority of the WEPS users.
Phil
Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it’s a great idea.
It’s an “if your not happy” service!
Now I’m in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn’t commented in this thread?
Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it’s a great idea.
It’s an “if your not happy” service!
Now I’m in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn’t commented in this thread?[/quote]
I’m away with my family for the weekend without my computer and giving long answers on my phone is a big challenge. In a nutshell, we may eventually have all the Basic Kit units shipping with the screws and washers, but it’s a slow process with our factory to get that done, so we probably won’t see them shipping that way until the second half of next year. I don’t personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you’re not satisfied with the arms as they are.
I’m sure it’s better than just guessing? 
So you are willing to “bet†about knowing peoples thoughts?
[quote]This means that even though the subject has come up here and a “few” have posted about it, it does not mean that the difference has been significant to the vast majority of the WEPS users.
Phil[/quote]
Does it need to be the “vast majority�
I can appreciate that you feel like you need to defend this Phil, but it’s all a bit silly really. :P:
Thanks Clay, if there was an option to add this service to the shopping basket or simply order it through a dealer this would be great.
Perhaps a leaflet in the WEPS box?
Is there a cost involved?
Thanks Clay, if there was an option to add this service to the shopping basket or simply order it through a dealer this would be great.
Perhaps a leaflet in the WEPS box?
Is there a cost involved?[/quote]
We charge fifteen dollars for the MOD. I like the idea of adding the option to shopping basket and I’ll explore it.
The reality is that there will always be room for improvement with the machine, just as you went on to explore even better ball joints and some modifications to the ergonomics which sound very interesting. I definitely listen to those ideas and keep an eye on making the sharpener the best I can. Sometimes the innovations take a while to roll out, from concept, through design and prototyping to actual production and then apparently recall since all the other parts of the business need attention too.
Thanks Clay, if there was an option to add this service to the shopping basket or simply order it through a dealer this would be great.
Perhaps a leaflet in the WEPS box?
Is there a cost involved?[/quote]
We charge fifteen dollars for the MOD. I like the idea of adding the option to shopping basket and I’ll explore it.
The reality is that there will always be room for improvement with the machine, just as you went on to explore even better ball joints and some modifications to the ergonomics which sound very interesting. I definitely listen to those ideas and keep an eye on making the sharpener the best I can. Sometimes the innovations take a while to roll out, from concept, through design and prototyping to actual production and then apparently recall since all the other parts of the business need attention too.
I’m going to agree with Phil and Bob here, as well. I probably should have noted in my first answer that I modify almost everything I own to improve it in some way. It’s almost an obsession since I love to tinker. Not that there was anything wrong with the arms when they came, there wasn’t. I had seen a few vids on YouTube with a few of the mods that people were doing before I actually bought mine. Jdavis being one of those uploaders that convinced me to buy as well. I had stumbled on to his sharpening vids and enjoyed his insights. I have since learned to trust the community here also since they have been extremely helpful on all fronts and have a lot more experience than I do.
Anyway, I used my stock arms through a few knives to get a feel for the system and gain some proficiency with the system so when I did modify it, I had a baseline to use to see if it actually made a difference. The modifications did make a difference, but if I hadn’t used it before making those changes, I wouldn’t have been able to tell the difference, because the difference it made was so small. Technique will make much more of an improvement in your edges. While you’re still breaking stones in, which you probably will be for a few knives still, the washer modification won’t really make any appreciable difference, especially while the system is still so new to you. My stones (well, diamonds) are just starting to get where I feel like they are really broken in, and I’ve run at least 50-75 sharpening cycles on them. I put it that way because some have been my own knives being re-profiled to differing bevel angles as test’s and some have been friends knives I did for free just to get some more steel under the diamonds. Because of this I really don’t have an accurate count but there have been at least 30-35 of my own knives and 15-20 of others knives. I will say that you can feel the diamonds starting to settle in after only a few knives, maybe as few as 5-10 sharpening cycles. Obviously, this will vary based on time spent at each grit level, as already pointed out, and also the types of steel might have an effect also. I’m not sure about that since the diamonds are so much harder than the steel, a few degrees of Rockwell hardness in differing steels shouldn’t make much difference, but since we are talking about break in and essentially getting rid of any loose diamonds inherent in the manufacturing process, that might actually make a difference. Others here can chime in on that aspect.
I will say this, you will be getting spectacular edges very soon, just keep at it. Watch videos of others sharpening to hone (pun intended)your own technique and get some knives in your vice. It will get so much better and easier really fast. My edges are so good now, I am constantly bragging to people around me and showing my knives off. My son-in-law wants me to do his Henkels Professional S set that he won’t take to a “professional” sharpener because he doesn’t want to risk them getting messed up. If you knew how anal he is with his stuff, you’d know what kind of testament it is to the systems capability, because it really is the system more than my expertise since I’ve only had my WEPS for less than 2 months. I have to stop myself sometimes because I want to put a polished edge on everything, just because I can. but you learn quickly that a polished edge, while beautiful, isn’t the best edge for everything. but that’s for another discussion.
I guess I could have just said: Keep at it and don’t worry too much about the arms. They’re good just the way they are. Your edges will get better really soon.
Hope this helps you out some…
Not worth it.
Sorry Ted, it seems this will never happen, even though it’s a great idea.
It’s an “if your not happy” service!
Now I’m in the spotlight for being honest.
I see Clay thanked the post above, but still hasn’t commented in this thread?[/quote]
I’m away with my family for the weekend without my computer and giving long answers on my phone is a big challenge. In a nutshell, we may eventually have all the Basic Kit units shipping with the screws and washers, but it’s a slow process with our factory to get that done, so we probably won’t see them shipping that way until the second half of next year. I don’t personally find it to be a problem but do recognize that others do, hence the option to send yours in for us to mod, if you’re not satisfied with the arms as they are.[/quote]
You don’t find it to be a problem but as I mentioned, a strong influencer (jdavis882) did. I bought a WE based on his recommendation (WE vs EdgePro). In all due respect, his video showing the mods you made with washers and screws was 8 months ago. Seems you might have the wrong factory.