As a home cook I have a leather strop in my kitchen. Simple leather glued on wood. The strop is covered with 1 micron stropping spray (I like it a bit finer than most people). Before every use of a knife, I strop it.
My rational mind says I should use a stone instead (like a Chosera 5K or 10K stone) for this purpose. A leather strop has pliability, one can inadvertedly round an edge, … A stone simply has more advantages.
But… I still cannot get myself to use a stone in the kitchen. Is this pure emotional attachment or do you think there are also good reasons to use a strop instead of a stone? And what do you use?
I had been doing the 15 or so kitchen knives on the WEPS, taking them to 800 or 1000 stones. This last weekend I did the whole batch on my buffing stand. A single pass on each side first on my 600 grit wheel, then a single pass on my 4 micron diamond (Ken Schwatrz) wheel. Where there were visible dings and nicks, I take a couple more passes on the 600. With my double-ended buffer, I can do a knife like this in about 30 seconds. I looked at the edge on one of them with my 50X USB camera and it looks very toothy. I think the result is very much like the edges you get with the Worksharp Knife & Tool rig. Toothy to bite into whatever needs biting and the polish to remove the friction-causing scratches.
I don’t think the polish is the equivalent of stropping, but you asked what we do with our kitchen knives.
We’ve had very sharp (but inexpensive) kitchen knives now for more than four years, so we’re accustomed to taking care, but I slipped up this time. On bringing the box of just-sharpened knives up from the basement, I dumped them into my wife’s dirty dishwater. I reached in to retrieve one of the knives for washing and almost immediately noticed a red liquid oozing from the tip of my thumb. Quite a lot of it. I got a band-aid and within three minutes I had a similar occurrence with my other hand. The next day, my wife had a band-aid on too. These buggers reach out and touch you.
I guess you could infer that a toothy edge is particularly advantageous when slicing flesh. The polish seems to complete the package.
I think stropping (in the kitchen) is intended to touch up a refined edge, and the ability of the strop to work the edge in a convex manner is quite different from the fixed-plane effect you get with a stone. Would you have to make a number of passes at varying angles to get the same effect as the strop? For that matter, what stone would you use in lieu of the strop? Coarse? Fine? Very fine? I have a hard black Arkansas that I used before I got the WEPS. Seems maybe that would be a good choice?
BTW Mark, what are your edges like before using them? Are they finished and polished all the way to the 1 micron you strop with?
Tom, thanks! The point was not so much how refined my edges are, but whether stropping on a strop or on a stone would be a better method of maintaining them. Of course I am aware of the differences, and rationally I should use a stone, I think. My edges are usually not convex, so why use a leather strop to maintain them? Or even a balsa strop when I have a stone available?
What you say about an Arkansas stone is exactly what I was thinking about a Coticule stone. Both quite refined natural stones and sort-of local to where we live.
The edges on my kitchen knives are more refined than most people like them. As I found out when I sharpened for a restaurant, it’s highly personal how refined people like their edges. It varied from 400 grit to 10K (Choseras). But at KitchenKnifeForums there seems to be some consensus that a good (Japanese, carbon) kitchen knife is finished at 3-5K.
I actually have two strops in my kitchen: one with 4 micron stuff, for the knives I finished with a 5K Chosera and one with 1 micron stuff, for the knives I finished with a 15K Shapton Pro. So yes, the knives were finished already to the level I strop at.
Mark I wonder if a length of 1" or so wood dowel rod wrapped with glued on leather impregnated with the diamond paste might be the kitchen touch up ticket. Then we could use it similarly to a sharpening steel but with a edge following stroke.
What is the intended advantage of a round strop over a flat one, besides bird’s beak blades? Also before going to the trouble of wrapping leather how about pasting a sanded wood dowel directly?
My though was for the quick strop touchup in the kitchen. I am just trying to quickly and lightly smooth the edge and I’d be able to replicate the quick motion I usually associate with the steel rod. It would be hand-held and I could do both sides of the knife without putting it down and maybe not even changing my grip. Right now with the paddle strop I have to find a clean dry place to lay the two sided leather strop. I have to hold the paddle so it doesn’t slide while I strop the first side. Then I have to switch hands or change my grip and move the strop then hold it in place to do the other side of the knife.
The wood rod might work too. It’d be easy enough to try.
If you don’t use a WE you can inadvertently round or trash the edge on stone. I used to use heavy pressure hand stropping. When I got a WE I also use heavy pressure on strops. One day I really rounded the edge of a kitchen knife hand stropping. After that I use very light pressure for hand stropping and pay more attention to setting the right angle on the strop. My hand strop is like yours, 1" leather glued to wood. I have found that very light pressure will straighten out minor edge deformations, so I try to strop back into condition as soon as I feel a rounded edge.
To answer your question I would say stick with strop. I also try to strop after use. I can kind of feel if the edge deformed more and think about what/how I was cutting. Maybe use both. When I do have a more serious deformation and I am too lazy to pull out the WE I use a honing steel. This can sometimes fix more serious deformations, but also is more dangerous to rounding an edge.
I have tried a ceramic rod (free hand) and get poor results. Sometime it comes out duller than when I started. May be user error.
I use a diamond sharpening rod first, then a ceramic rod(global) and then most of the time a set of strops with the bark river black/green/white compound. No stones, since my freehand sharpening sucks bigtime
Im kind of an edgefreak, especially on my pocketknives(mostly Chris Reeve)
I put a polished edge on with my WE, and then maintain that on strops, that seems to be very forgiving. My edges are nicely polished and even, and scary sharp.
Sadly, after putting in very little effort, l gave up on freehanding!
Switched to WE and recently a tormek-like device (Jet JTTS-10). Bought that to sharpen the kitchen knives of friends&family
I’ve been looking for a mechanical device for a long time. Large belt sanders just don’t fit in my small shed, so this looks interesting. But when I google it, it looks more like a saw table. Do you mean this device? http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jts-10-bench-top-saw-bench. How do you use it for sharpening?
I use a 10-12" white ceramic “steel” or honing rod. Edge leading, alternating passes, very lightly. I pretty much always do this after using the knife, after cleaning it. Then after it has been honed I place it back in the block and it’s ready to go for the next time :side:
I typically don’t like strops, unless it’s for my straight razor because then you want to round the edge and it gives a superb shave. The theory goes (according to Cliff Stamp) that if you strop you are hitting the very apex and actually bending it back and forth, especially the way most people do it with a heavily loaded strop that has been used a bunch instead of a clean strop w/ abrasive compound. This bending back and forth will weaken the apex of an edge (similar to if you bent a paper clip back and forth - it would break) and you will notice a decrease in edge retention the more you strop. This is why Cliff advocates only using stones.
I am not sure how much the above actually makes a difference, however, in day to day edge retention that would be noticeable. I personally don’t use strops because I find they remove the teeth in the edge that I like so much. So my 1200 grit (or so) white ceramic rod does the trick nicely. If I were to use a strop I would probably grab a paint stick from the hardware store, which are balsa around here, and load it w/ some compound and use that.
But this is the trick… thin edges love a honing rod - touch up in 5-10 passes and you can maintain your edge for literally 6 months, shaving sharp, in between sharpenings w/ almost daily light use.
this sharpenerOh, and NVG is probably referring to.
Viel S-5Mark, as far as a sander… from what I have read the general consensus is that the Tormek’s aren’t that great unless you are a wood worker. If I were you I would look into getting a. They are a great price and you can pick up a local motor that works on your voltage. I would also almost consider a vfd so you can slow it WAY down hehe, but that is more $.
[quote quote=“HodMa1” post=24415]
If proper angle is indeed the case then how do leather barber strops work to sharpen straight razors? There’s no precise angle maintained there.[/quote]
Actually there is! A straight razor is specially ground such that the spine of the razor acts as a built-in angle guide. You lay the razor exactly flat and never lift the spine while stropping and this gives you a consistent angle.
[quote quote=“Mr Wizard” post=24420][quote quote=“HodMa1” post=24415]
If proper angle is indeed the case then how do leather barber strops work to sharpen straight razors? There’s no precise angle maintained there.[/quote]
Actually there is! A straight razor is specially ground such that the spine of the razor acts as a built-in angle guide. You lay the razor exactly flat and never lift the spine while stropping and this gives you a consistent angle.[/quote]
This is true while honing on stones but not true when stropping on a hanging strop… think about it… everyone will hold different amounts of tension on the strop and get varying angles at the apex Check this video out…
