Fitting My Shapton Pro's to WEPS

Legacy Forum Archive advanced-techniques-and-sharpening-strategies
1

Hey guys

I just ordered a WEPS /w angle finder PPII upgrade and two extra handles!

Previously, I have been using three Shapton Pro ceramic stones in 1k 2k and 5k and lapping them with a DMT D8X.

My hope is to abrasive water jet cut these stones down to size and mount them onto the extra handles I purchased.
I know a shop in town that has an OMAX 80160 and doesn’t charge me much to run it , but am wayyyyyyyyy too cashed out to be buying anything else.

That being said…

  1. Has anyone done this before
  2. Any recommendations?
  3. What are the exact dimensions I should be cutting the stones too.

Also, I know there have been some issues keeping stones mounted to the handles. I’m hoping the handles will ship with the new tape from 3M that has been discussed, but if not can anyone recommend a proper alternative solution?

I will photo document this process, your comments are appreciated!

2

Welcome to the forum!

I believe Tom and Ken are the guys cutting stones for the Wicked Edge (I linked to their profiles)… They’re not always on here, so you might consider sending them a PM, which should also go to their email. They should at least be able to tell you any issues to be aware of.

Good luck! Keep us posted! :woohoo:

p.s. That your work in your avatar (I’m assuming?) Feel free to post some pics… Looks pretty cool!

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Hey TekMiami,

Welcome!

I completely agree with Curtis. Just ask Ken or Tom nicely. They are the experts. Obviously they have a commercial interest in this sort of information, but I know them personally as very nice people.

I also find your photograph very intriguing. Interested in follow-ups!

4

Thanks guys, I fired off a PM to Jende. Next time the fever bites I’m sure another set of handles and his 8k and 15k cut shaptons will be arriving at my doorstep shortly after lol, though I immagine its going to take some time for my finances to recover (I also just acquired a Takeda Banno Bunka AS 170mm.. WHOOPS) What? I needed something to shave with lmao

As far as the water jet goes… It’s not going to not cut through the stones (lol) If anything, I’m only worried that the process might crack stones as they sheer free from one another. I noticed Tom mounts his to an aluminum plate, Im wondering if this is before hand to prevent such disasters, or just a precaution to keep them flat throughout their life; although I didn’t think ceramic stones had problems bowing. I have zero commercial intrest in producing more stones, i just would HATE to have to invest $400 in the same stones, rather than advancing my kit.

The picture was taking a while ago during a Garde Manger course at JWU North Miami. I’m decent enough with a moderately sharp knife, I can’t wait to see what the WEPS will unlock.

5

Ah! Now I can finally see what that small picture depicts. Amazing job. Beautiful! Is it a dog? That is my imagination… This is why I love art. If you say they WEPS might unlock more, I am more than curious.

6

I’m pretty sure its a horse :wink: lol

As far as the unlocking comment. I had just gotten my Kikuichi 270 gyuto and the shitty paring knife wasn’t cutting it (literally), so i walked the big ass knife around the watermelon with two hands. I never was really able to get the edge I know that steel should hold with my shapton (lack of experience, technique time etc). I’m hoping the WEPS will achieve this for me.

7

Ah! A fellow Japanese kitchen knife lover. I am currently in the process of deciding on a 240/270 mm workhorse knife. Which type and steel of Kikuichi do you have? If you cut a melon with it, this sounds like a workhorse knife. How does it cut onions and tomatoes? (Obviously I want my workhorse knife to cut almost like a laser. :wink: )

And… with a WEPS and Shaptons you’ve definitely got the best tools to get it sharp.

8

My mistake its actually a 240 of the TKC line.

Its a great knife.
For working in a kitchen prefer I smaller blades, thats why i actually just ordered a 170mm. One day when i have a really big kitchen lol i might consider switchin to footlongs.

9

You could do something like this. It is Not my idea, but something Steve Pinson was doing.
The stones are cut 1 inch wide and 5.75 long. Glued to aluminum strip (that I lapped), 1/2" U channel attached to that, aluminum tubing with bushings to fit the 0.25" rods. They work pretty well, actually very well. It gives you more stone surface to play with. I got some 3K, and 5K Choseras from him and a set of 2K (green brick of joy" stones. I mounted them like this, though you could remove the ridges from the stock platens and do the same sort of thing. Actually the stock paddle mod would end up being close to the same cost, or cheaper. Once you buy the material though, you can have enough to make several sets.

I wish that I could have gotten to him while he still had the 10K Choseras. I did get some 10K and 12 Superstones, and 5K and 15K Shaptons. They were mounted to the stock handles, but about twice as thick as they were being cut elsewhere.

BTW, this is Steve’s Picture. The one handle is complete less affixing the tube in the U channel. The others had been cut and mounted to the aluminum strip, waiting for the U channel and tube to be attached.I will see if I can take a few photos of the completed ones that I have tomorrow.

[quote quote=“TekMiami” post=11044]Hey guys

I just ordered a WEPS /w angle finder PPII upgrade and two extra handles!

Previously, I have been using three Shapton Pro ceramic stones in 1k 2k and 5k and lapping them with a DMT D8X.

My hope is to abrasive water jet cut these stones down to size and mount them onto the extra handles I purchased.
I know a shop in town that has an OMAX 80160 and doesn’t charge me much to run it , but am wayyyyyyyyy too cashed out to be buying anything else.

That being said…

  1. Has anyone done this before
  2. Any recommendations?
  3. What are the exact dimensions I should be cutting the stones too.

Also, I know there have been some issues keeping stones mounted to the handles. I’m hoping the handles will ship with the new tape from 3M that has been discussed, but if not can anyone recommend a proper alternative solution?

I will photo document this process, your comments are appreciated![/quote]

You could do something like this:

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10

Jeez back in the day I had access to a machine shop and could easily of spot welded something like that together in a second, but i’ve already got the extra stock handles and without a tig welder thats three times the adhesive bonds. Looks great though, im curious to know what adhesives others have been using!

Everyone mounting to aluminum backing!? Is there a particular reason for this? AWJ leaves a perfectly clean edge when it cuts, so it should fit square into the ridges, im worried if i try to sand them down i will un-parallel the stones from the axis of the rod.

The system should arrive sometime in the next 7 hours. I was planning on going to cut the stones today so i can get the glue curing asap, but im not sure what the exact dimensions between the ridges are!? can someone help me out!? (Edit: With a caliper lol)

11

Keep in mind what I said, you can grind or sand off the ridges, then cut the stones to the dimensions that you prefer. The point of doing that rather then being constrained by the ridges is that you can cut the stones to a dimension that will maximize the number you can get from the original stone. A bit of overhang should not hurt anything and it will give you more surface available on the blade.

I am not sure about the AL. There are some that feel that the plastic platens on the WEPS handles are not flat enough. This does not include me, so I won’t argue the point.

I used Gorilla glue to glue the stones to the AL and all of the AL parts together, and the bushings in the tubing.

It claims to work with wood, plastic or metal and is waterproof. Follow the instructions, dampen one piece and clamp well. The stuff expands a bunch, so use the minimum to get surface coverage after clamping. It is a bit slow, as you should clamp for at least a couple of hours, and max strength is achieved after 24 hours.
With the handles I posted the picture of, that means at least two days. Once the U channel has been clamped for a couple of hours, the tube can be glued and the whole thing clamped for the required time. Of course, the longevity of the bond may be a question. I can say that I have glued crossover parts on phenolic with this stuff years ago, and it is all still in place years later.

I hit the stones enough to rough them up with my XXC DMT plate. and rinsed well with distilled water before gluing them. You could use 120 grit sandpaper, but make sure any of the abrasive from the paper is removed from the stones before gluing.

12

Everything came in today.

Apparently the platens ship with aluminum glued into them?

I scratched them up a bit. They are, it seems, not perfectly level but that’s kinda a moot point. I think lapping them flat, then scoring the surface with the D8XX as Phil suggested will be the best course of action.

My primary concern is how thick the whole setup is going to be once glued together… Especially doubled sided! Maybe i should glue stones to one side of each pair?

Also, im going to cut them to the size of outer edges of the platens. This will leave an inset groove around the aluminum (sandwiched between the plastic platen and the ceramic stone) which i can also fill with gorilla glue in an attempt to reinforce the bond. (I’ll have pictures of this later)

Anyways.. Tomorrow im going to build a base for the unit, have the stones cut, glue it all up and begin to reprofile all these knives with the diamond handles.

.

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13

If you could cut them in half through the thickness first it would be more manageable for the WE paddles and leave you with a stone you could still use by hand..
That is what the guys cutting them for the WE do… or in the case of the ones sold by WEPS, they must cut them in three pieces, then section to fit the platens.

It wouldn’t hurt anything to cut the stones a bit oversized. I like the full one inch wide stones. Once you use them for awhile you won’t even notice the bulk… at half of the original stone thickness. It would seem that using the full thickness might be a bit much..

Be careful trying to use the Gorilla glue to fill in anything. It expands three to four times its original volume. You will have glue where you don’t want it. The glue is a real PIA to remove once it is cured if you have excess too!! If you think there is not nearly enough to start… you may not have excess once it expands.

BTW, did you buy those handles directly from WEPS or are they from Ken? I have purchased a few sets of blank handles and never had them come mounted with AL plate/strip. By request they would affix strips of the 3M double stick tape for me…

Phil

PS, nice kit. The diamonds might be getting close to being broken in by the time you re-profile all of them..
:slight_smile:

14

yikes. The platens came directly from wicked edge. I think they will be a bit large but not overly heavy once they are affixed with the stones. I’m more interested in the use life of the platens than a profit margin, so I’m gonna skip sashimi the stones ( although abrasive WJ would makes this almost too easy- 1mm kerf no burs no cleanup)

As for the gorilla glue. oh god i’ve been there lmao. that being said its nothing a die grinder cant zip off in a second! just dont breathe the dust.

Three of those knives are gerber balance plus 1401 from the 80’s that i dont think have ever been sharpened. Incredible knives, i have no idea what steel is in them but they’re tuff as hell. I could feel the diamonds breaking in just putting the basic profile on them.\ Unfortunately they were doing a big job at the WJ shop today so im gonna try again tomorrow with that.

15

Keep in mind, with stones that thick you will need to make major angle adjustment compared to any of the stock WEPS pieces. There could be some angles that you couldn’t duplicate because you run out of base rod length. Granted that should not happen too often, only in the high twenties or more… but it is a potential.

Me, my die grinder, and plastic do not work well together… much less trying to get the damn glue off of the stones. Too much likelihood of a an irreparable mess being the result. A fine file for the plastic and 600 grit wet and dry for the sides of the stones. Takes too much time, but doesn’t piss me off when I look at the results.

:slight_smile:
As you have access to the Water Jet… I would seriously think about as you say doing a “sashimi” on the stones.
It will leave you with a serviceable bench stone and more manageable paddles… both should last for lots of sharpening…lots!

Phil

16

When I go back tomorrow I’ll discuss the price of cutting the stones in half. this would yield me 6 (!) 143mm x 23mm x 7 mm out of each stone!

Im going to use gorilla glue epoxy instead of standard gorilla glue. It shouldn’t have that massive expansion factor.

I think longer rods are on my ASAP list. Knives such as my scimitar. I want to create and edge that tapers from the hilt to the tip of the blade without having to unclamp it.

17

I’ve glued stones (not Shaptons, but I don’t think it would be different) to aluminum blanks with 3M 77 spray… never had an issue.

18

Interesting..
I tried to use old 77 for gluing leather to wood for bench strops. I had all kinds of problems with edges lifting. I ended up using the original Barge cement. No problems. I didn’t even think to try it on the stones, Part of the problem, I think, was the abrasives that I used on the strops… some oil based, some water based. It gave me pause for using it on water stones.

Sure would be lots easier that the Gorilla glue to work with. I have never tried the Gorilla Epoxy on anything.

19

[quote quote=“PhilipPasteur” post=11218]Interesting..
I tried to use old 77 for gluing leather to wood for bench strops. I had all kinds of problems with edges lifting. I ended up using the original Barge cement. No problems. I didn’t even think to try it on the stones, Part of the problem, I think, was the abrasives that I used on the strops… some oil based, some water based. It gave me pause for using it on water stones.

Sure would be lots easier that the Gorilla glue to work with. I have never tried the Gorilla Epoxy on anything.[/quote]

I’ve used it on stones I’ve subsequently soaked in a tub of water (many times)… so I don’t think water is an issue. No idea about oil stones.

Totally unrelated… but I bought a bottle of Gorilla Glue a while back (I guess longer than I thought), and was going to try it on something the other day… opened a brand new bottle… cut the tip off, and found the entire bottle was dried out. :angry:

20

I had two unopened bottles… one solid as a rock, the other still OK.
They tell you to squeeze all of the air out of the bottle before storing it..
BUT, there is air in the bottle as it sits on the shelf waiting for you to buy it..

The bottle that was still good, I squeezed all of the air out and put it in the freezer…
Lets see how long it lasts…

Oil based slurries applied to leather made the 77 release. I doubt we would soak any of the stones we use on the WEPS in oil. I will try the #M 77 next time I need to glue stones…

BTW Curtis, did you glue these stones to the stock WEPS paddles with plastic platens?