Choosing a fairly full WE setup - Requesting input

Legacy Forum Archive techniques-and-sharpening-strategies
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First ever post… I’m about to choose a modified WE set and would like suggestions and input (both positive and negative) about my choice(s).

Start with a ProPack II, but drop the 800/1000 diamond and the micro fine ceramic stones normally included. Add 800/1000 and 2000/3000 Chosera stones. Drop the 1 and .5 strop pack and add two Roo strops along with 1, .5, .25 Micron Diamond sprays and .125 Cubic Boron Nitride spray.

My experience up until now is with an EP Apex II and often touch-ups with 1500 to 2000 sandpaper. Being close to OCD, I just can’t stand anything less than near perfect on the many quality knives I own, and so far haven’t achieved it.

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Hi, so you want to have perfect polish, right? I recommend preserve 800/1000 diamond, because diamonds leave deaper scratches than the same grit Choseras. And maybe I drop one Roo strop and add 5000/10000 Choseras, but it means price increase. But with patience your edges should be soon near perfect either way.

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+1 to Lukas’ recommendation. And if that’s too expensive, if you keep the ceramics already included you can go directly to the 5K/10K Chosera’s.

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I wish my goals would have been so clear when I started out. I ended up buying everything you mentioned. Here us what I would do? I would keep the 800/1000 diamonds for reasons already stated. Then I would get Chosera’s
1/3K and 5/10K. For strops… Roo with 1/.25 diamond spray. With this combo you will be able to see your eyelashes in the reflection! The ceramics and leather strops if you decide they do not fit in your collection ( I think you’ll like them) they will be easy to sell here on the WEPS forum and recoup some money.
And to do this and to make sure I am right? I would call Bob Nash @ Oldawan Tools (505) 570.2040 tell him my goals and let him customize my order so it is 100% right! But that just me and ymmv? Best of luck! No matter what you do? You are just going to LOVE the WEPS!!!

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Well… after viewing the responses and having a discussion with Bob on what I want, here’s the modification on the WEPS Pro Pack II:

Drop: Micro fine ceramic (keeping the 800/1000 diamond) and the leather strop with 1 & .5 paste.

Add: 1000/5000 and a 3000/10000 Chosera, and Roo strop with 1 and .25 CBN sprays.

It’s all on the way this afternoon.

Thanks to those who responded with quick and excellent suggestions.

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Update: Received the setup yesterday and did the assembly. Took my reasonably sharp EDC, a Chris Reeve small Sebenza and hit it with the 600, 800, and 1000 diamond’s before letting it rest. Having never used Choseras before, I reviewed Tom Blodgett (of Jende Industries) videos twice before I broke them out today. At this point, let me thank Bob at Oldawan for suggesting I put the 1000/5000 and 3000/10000 together in that order… it sure made pre-soaks a lot easier. Only spent about a half hour working with the Choseras, then tested the edge. Yes, it is shaving sharp, even though I didn’t go further than the stones. I suspect that the knife would be even sharper if I’d both extended the exposure to each stone and then stropped it, but that can wait until another day. For now, it’s already the sharpest knife I’ve ever had.

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Hi Will
If this was my first sharpening with the WEPS, I would have started from scratch, carefully raised a burr and done the whole thing at my chosen angle. I would wager with little fear that your wonderful knife would have been even sharper. Hair splitting sharp perhaps.
Also you might want to read carefully the posted thread on distressing the edge…it holds some excellent advice from some very knowledgeable people. Priceless stuff for all sharpeners.
My two sense worth!

Cheers
Leo

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A couple of pointers… 1. Get and use an angle cube to measure exact angles, especially when transitioning from the diamonds to the choseras… 2. when transitioning to the strop, lower your angle by two degrees per side. This will prevent rounding at the apex. You should get scary sharp edges keeping these and other point in mind. Keep us posted!

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One word of advice with Choseras they are essentially splash & go stones . There is a guy virtuvoice on you tube that has had problems with cracking with the Choseras & Shaptons since they are mounted they tend to not dry evenly; do not dry them artificially , or in sunlight or let them freeze do not clean with warm water it was suggested to wakko to wrap them in towels to dry them don’t put them into plastic boxes until they are dry.
They really do not need lots of water . When you get full size Choseras they come with a small stone to rub over them pre use when wet to produce a little slurry it helps to get them going you can rub the two together alternatively.
Also remember to flatten them since if they are not flat they will not work properly on the WE.
There was a number of threads on flattening them on the forum otherwise look on You tube . Essentially get a pencil and draw a criss cross pattern across the surface then if you do not have a diamond bench stone then use the 1k diamond plates and do a sort of figure of eight motion on them until all the pencil lines are gone turning them around half way through it is best to flatten them each time they are to be used -(less to remove otherwise it can get depressing if you can see a hollow it can be a lot of stone to remove so doing it after each time they are used has two advantages it is quick and it does not feel as if you are wasting precious stone). It is also recommended as with bench stones to take the corners off them so put a 45Ëš bevel around them it stops the edges from chipping!
So dunk them under water for a couple of seconds before use and then either spray the with a water spray as you use them or let drips of water run off your finger tips onto them don’t remove the slurry .
Lastly as razor edge mentions they will be thicker than the diamond plates and also the ceramics and the strops are all differing thicknesses so it is important to angst the angles to compensate WE are about to release SWATS which are what the drill stop collar is to the EP this will make changing different stone mediums much quicker .
Also drop the strops by 2Ëš so as to not remove the sharp edge .

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I should have mentioned that I had a reasonable angle and sharpness prior to starting by previously using an EP up to 800 and 2000 tape sans angle cube. I’m now using an Accuremote angle cube, checking after each stone change, and have put a slight convex edge on the Sebbie. I have a tray for the Choseras and use a 1/4" water depth for soaking prior to use, as well as a very light spray bottle. I used the “slurry rub” prior to initial use, and am drying them at room temperature in a small cardboard box. I had not noted about stropping at a 2° angle reduction, so will do that when I reach that point. Thanks to all.

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I wonder if this was why my 5k cracked? I soak them for 5-15 minutes before use, sometimes longer. I didn’t know that it would hurt them, Bobnever mentioned this even when he replaced it… Hmm I’ll try not doing this for so long. Thanks Leo!

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My Choseras are from my EP and I had always soaked them as you did/do. Thought it was written somewhere to soak.

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I believe Bob instructed me to soak my chosera’s. It is my impression that the Shaptons are the stones that you splash. I am going to send Bob an email and ask him to weigh in on this topic. I too had to have stones replaced. Maybe Tom from Jende Industries could say something as well? I will email him as well.

Edit: I have left an email with both Tom and Bob. Hope to hear from them soon?

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I soak for 10-15 minutes. I have read on the forum that you don’t want to soak them too long. By splash and go this means (to me) that after soaking very little water is needed. Every 2-5 minutes I add 4 drops per stone to keep them damp.

I am late to the party but here is my recommendations: keep the 1000# diamonds. They are just so versatile and a good end/start to the water stones.

From personal experience I would save the Roo’s until you get some experience with the WEPS. If I only had one set of strops 3.5/5 would be fine. I cut my strops up a bit early on in the learning phase, and still knick them a bit from time to time.

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There’s some excellent advice given by all here! B) If you want even more perfection Quaddy99, I highly recommend adding a 400 or 600/800 Chosera to the mix to really even out those diamond 800/1000 scratches. We’re talking scary mirror finish in the end.

Leo Barr - a couple of clarifying points:

I disagree with is using the 600 grit cleaning stones from the full sized stones for use as a slurry/paste generator unless on the 400, 600 and possibly the 800 stones. On higher grits the 600 is contaminating the action of the stones. Rubbing same grit stones together or using a diamond plate to generate slurry is much more desirable for better finishes. After using a generated slurry, I recommend rinsing the stones and using them again without a slurry - the paste generated from this method will produce a better finish than one with slurry, which is more aggressive (and leaves deeper scratches).

As for the cracking issue - Virtuovice’s videos need to be taken with a grain of salt - he is also the guy who sharpened on a stone drenched with his own blood - seriously. :sick: Curiously, he called the 5K and 600 stones “soft”, which they are, but the 2K is also considered a soft, if not the softest stone in the bunch…

But that aside, his video on the cracked stones are full sized (3x8x1 inch thick) on plastic bases, which may account for an uneven drying since water may pool on the bottom. The ~5" x 3/4" x 5mm thickness of the WEPS stones are much less likely to have that issue since the water can much more easily evaporate.

What alarms me about virtuovice’s video is that ALL of his stones have cracked, which leads me to believe that he is storing them improperly. He doesn’t say how he has stored them, so it is difficult to say what the true cause is. The Choseras stones he has are probably the same formulation as we have, but the Shaptons are an older, M series, which are not currently available in the US (I don’t know if they are still available in Japan). Overall, I have never heard of widespread cracking on either brand.

Back to the discussion at hand, the issues of the Choseras for the WEPS cracking are practically non existent since we started. I think we can count on one hand the small number of cases that were not caused by user error, and they were more weird, isolated anomalies than anything. Most often, the cracks are caused by dropping paddles, bending the WEPS stones, and by smacking the stones against the knife too hard.

However, given the very few reports over the years of full sized 5K and 10K Choseras cracking, I would not recommend soaking them indefinitely, or putting them in direct sunlight or leaving them prolonged in an uncontrolled environment, such as in water in an unheated garage near the south side window in winter. :cheer:

I hope this helps!

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Tom, what is your advise on using them once the cutting you need is done? Do you use them soaked or damp or ? I keep a spray bottle handy and when the stone has become “loaded” I then spray the stone wet then mix the the sludge with my finger to a loose grim then wipe them clean with a rag and spray them again with clean water as to start new.
I got this from Phil Pastor on an old thread here. He was the “old timer” on the board so I figured he knew? How says you? :unsure:

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Hi Eamon!

I usually just spritz my stones as I’m setting up the knife for sharpening. And since I usually begin with the diamonds, I’ve got a few minutes before the Choseras are needed. When I’m ready for them, I give them another spritz and start working. Some people swear they work better after 5 minutes of soaking, but whatever works for you is fine so long as the surfaces are wet when you use them.

As I use them (I generally don’t use a slurry) I will add only a drop of water or so to keep the black paste that forms alive. Keeping the paste on the stone slows down the cutting action and increases polishing. Since the heavy sharpening was usually done on the diamonds, I want to bring out the Chosera’s polishing properties. If I want more aggression, like on the 400, 600 & 800, I will wash the paste off completely and use the stone clean.

After use, I will lap the stones and let them dry over night on a clean towel - I lay the paddle down on the towel, not the stones. I like to make sure that if there are any water drops in the hole for the arms, it is dry before I pack up the stones for storage - usually about 12-36 hours.

I live in a very humid area (80-05% all year) and for comparison, my full size Choseras take about 4-5 days to dry out completely. I put them on their side on a paper towel to help draw out the water. When the paper towel is dry again, I know the stones are, too.

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I had a friend who went to gunsmithing school in Colorado (CO School of Trades). He kept all of his stones (all Arkansas and a few synthetics) in a pan of mineral spirits or WD-40. The soak kept metal particles from becoming embedded. Didn’t need much honing oil.

Come to think of it, I used a lot of honing oil until I bought my WEPS. I was going to get a new bottle from Jantz but don’t need to anymore. S

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Don’t do this with Choseras!!! :ohmy: :ohmy:

Here’s what comes with the full size stones…

(Thought I’d show this since it mentioned the crazing that may occur.)

… although I’ve found they work pretty well by just spraying them initially, and keeping them wet during sharpening with the occasional spray.

Attachments:

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I’ve done 5 knives now, each of a different metal… today’s was a slightly re-profiled Busse with Infi. Now that the stones and Roo are getting broken in, the whole process is easier, and the blades even sharper.