Awareness for those dealing in the public

Legacy Forum Archive sharpening-as-a-business
1

Bringing this up as it caught me by surprise reading it.
I don’t do markets, do my sharpening at home after meeting people for pickup or mail in’s, but thought this was important enough for all, especially those that sharpen in public.

Following a thread on a group where a mishap took place at a market.

Bottom line, a kid stuck his finger in a Tormex that was turning … result was a finger in the trough.
Sharpener is worried about repercussions even though he has insurance.

Just something to think about when interacting with the folks.

I always am careful when returning knives, stressing the fact of how sharp they now are and how to tell all that handle them to understand that they are not the same as before … so they must approach them with a certain mindset.

Lately have been thinking of going a bit mobile, and running across the thread, will be sure to take proactive measures when I do.

Thought it was important enough to pass on to all if your interacting with the public with any equipment.
Keep on our toes and set up accordingly.

2

Bottom line his parents should have been responsible the Tormek is a machine albeit a slow one 130 rpm whilst the WE is a tool but would that kid put himself in front of a car and in reality shouldn’t his parents or guardians be responsible.
We cannot continue to make other people liable for lack of care or stupidity !

The luxury yachting scene will not employ American deckhands unless they are American flagged because know one wants the hassle of having to pay compensation for someones stupidity plus boats are dangerous in what can be one of the most hostile environments on the planet (so who looses out Americans!).

What a shame it is that someone making a few bucks supplying a valid service in a small way will probable have to have liability insurance and perhaps a license to operate for a trade that has been around since the iron age just in case the liars -sorry lawyers want to make some money.

It is sad that England has gone that way with Police selling accident information to law firms not only that because of bogus claims insurance is much higher than it should be so everyone but the liars- lawyers have to pay more .

Perhaps a sign saying something like sharp things do not touch should suffice.

3

Leo, agree. But sadly we live in a litigious world.

As I’m looking into Flea Markets was surprised to find liability ins more or less a standard … you are on someone else’s property.

Another reason why I try and meet folks say in a parking lot for pickup and exchanges.
If your in their house, no different than a painter, liability is an issue.
Same goes if they come to your house.

Just posted as I was surprised and didn’t think of it.
Better to play on the safe side and keep things out of reach at the very least.

4

Funnily enough A lot of the knives I do I pick next to a nearby petrol station since there is parking along side it and it is usually a spot people know.
You are of course right and since there are some people that will go out of their way to gain an injury with the sole intent of some easy money .
Perhaps we should call it something like anti money grabbing idiot insurance.
Really is a shame that we live in times where fear is used to control .
Thank you for clarifying liabilities which I suspect are probable well on the way to standardisation .

What sort of price do you have to pay to cover your liabilities?

5

Right now I’m riding under my painting company insurance as a DBA so both companies are consolidated.

But am thinking about going separate as I’m sure I’m stretching it.

Prices range all over, and you mention knives to the company and look out … talk tools and maintenance instead.
Seeing 500 to over 1k, but am hoping to find an organization/group ins.

If anyone knows of one holler.
Many orgs have group policies that you can get in on by joining the org.

For instance, IDAL is an international stenciling group (stenciling and decorative painting fall together), fee to join is like $80, as an international group they have a member policy … $312 for $1mil coverage liability.

Hoping to find something similar in maybe scissors orgs as they seem to be better organized than knife sharpeners makers.

Anyone have any knowledge, drop a line.

6

Oh Leo, one option I looked into is getting a box with UPS or FEDEX.
Takes that liability issue away.
Clients can then drop off and then pick up.

The independent UPS stores you can make an arrangement with.
Will hit a FEDEX store at a local busy multi highway circle.
I use the lot to meet folks from all points as they pass on their commutes right there.
I don’t know if FEDEX is independent .. doesn’t look it .. way more organized than the UPS places.

7

So it seems to be the norm today always you pay then I suppose there are two options like you do keep it a clandestine operation or go big and hope the volume of business is sufficient to keep the prices down for the customer .

There are a lot of old style sharpeners here Mallorca that have a grinding wheel powered from the back wheel of a moped I cannot see them lasting too long - which in reality charge to much for their often destructive workmanship and since they often de-temper the blades they get to re sharpen the knives every week it helps if you have one leg for effect and I think half the work they get here is through charitable people; as a foreigner i do not get that nor would i want that. I want the work because firstly I care about what I do and have yet to find someone doing it better.
The one time I was impressed by the convex thinning and cutting bevels someone had done on a grinding wheel the steel had heat damage,

8

Now that sounds like a most viable solution.

9

[quote quote=“zig” post=13244]Right now I’m riding under my painting company insurance as a DBA so both companies are consolidated.

But am thinking about going separate as I’m sure I’m stretching it.

Prices range all over, and you mention knives to the company and look out … talk tools and maintenance instead.
Seeing 500 to over 1k, but am hoping to find an organization/group ins.

If anyone knows of one holler.
Many orgs have group policies that you can get in on by joining the org.

For instance, IDAL is an international stenciling group (stenciling and decorative painting fall together), fee to join is like $80, as an international group they have a member policy … $312 for $1mil coverage liability.

Hoping to find something similar in maybe scissors orgs as they seem to be better organized than knife sharpeners makers.

Anyone have any knowledge, drop a line.[/quote]

Yeah, make sure you post here as I am very interested in this too… primarily if someone cuts themselves on a blade I sharpen for them lol. Would your insurance cover this do you think?

[quote quote=“zig” post=13245]Oh Leo, one option I looked into is getting a box with UPS or FEDEX.
Takes that liability issue away.
Clients can then drop off and then pick up.

The independent UPS stores you can make an arrangement with.
Will hit a FEDEX store at a local busy multi highway circle.
I use the lot to meet folks from all points as they pass on their commutes right there.
I don’t know if FEDEX is independent .. doesn’t look it .. way more organized than the UPS places.[/quote]

this is exactly what I did… I got a “drop box” location at a local UPS store where the owner and I hit it off (you may even offer to sharpen his knives for him). Now he and his other worker are quite familiar w/ the deal… a customer drops off blades in some type of packaging (even an envelope) w/ their name and number written on it or inside and then they notify me. I pick them up, sharpen them, drop them back off thte next day. Then I notify the customer who swings by and picks up the blades and leaves a check or cash for me (never had an issue yet). Not to mention it works perfect w/ mail-in knife sharpening. I also have partnered w/ some local gun shops as a drop off point… but it may scare some people away lol.

10

Gonna call my home insurance.
Read some guys got a rider in the low 200’s.
Might as well try.

I have a rider on camera gear so why not if doable?

11

i have been wondering about this topic.

i have also been looking into getting some nice boxes for knives in and back out. uline makes tie boxes, but they are to small or seem to be…i was hoping for something 4 to 6" wide x 12" to 14in’s long and 1" deep.

i got those sleeves kinda for the safety aspect as well - ran out of the large and smalls - have replacments inbound for tomorrow or fri.

insurance…there goes the neighborhood… :cheer:

12

i got a rate today from my surance guy - :ohmy:
.
Yup.. we can provide a liability policy…. my guess cost to be $500-$750 range….

f y i

13

Wonder what exactly they call that kind of liability insurance? Lack of common sense insurance. After all it’s the customer that first has contact with something worn out and we’re supposed to make it better.

Let them suit me if they draw they’re own blood. They won’t be getting much.

14

I’m running into roads blocks left and right.
No, we don’t carry that anymore
You need a store front
We don’t want to insure mail

WTH???

I had an independent guy look all over … zip, zero, nadda.
So without insurance, how do you get into a farmers market?

15

Found this for $425, $1 mil liability, $2 mil aggregate.

You add Markets as you find the.

Gotta be something cheaper out there.

16

Is that per month?

17

Sorry Josh,
Missed this.
Per year.

www.paperless-insurance.com

They seemed to understand a Sharpening Biz and were familiar with the needs of Framers Markets.

I’m gonna different home owner’s policies.
I’m hearing some info that a home based rider can go for $260 a year, lowest I’ve heard about but yet to find.

Will keep posted.

18

[quote quote=“Bobg” post=13389]Wonder what exactly they call that kind of liability insurance? Lack of common sense insurance. After all it’s the customer that first has contact with something worn out and we’re supposed to make it better.

Let them suit me if they draw they’re own blood. They won’t be getting much.[/quote]

Bad part is you should have it even if you enter someone’s home to dropoff, no different than liability if you were a plumber.
Key is the property you are on.
Markets want liability as you are on their property.

(smart ones would understand workmans comp and require that, but leave sleeping dogs lie)

19

I asked a guy at the conference over the weekend and he said the same thing you did… 200-400 range depending on what you can work out with insurance companies. I believe he also mentioned a rider like you said Zig. Thanks for posting the link!

20

Josh,
That’s good news!

I’m still gonna try some home insurance and a rider .. why pay more if you can get the same for less.

But at least I know I found someone that covers.
My guys around here came up blank.
NJ, go figure.

Really wish I can find a sharpeners org … group insurance is the way to go.
Have a Decorative plaster/painting biz … alone … $1,300.
Through the org .. $320’s and country wide .. go figure.