Thanks so much, i try to use the same sweeping motion i do with the stones for the strop so that is most likely 90% of my problem . I never thought about going in short strokes straight up. And also what works better the lapping films or the strops? My bench made holds a got edge for a good long while with the strops but im looking to put a surgical edge on my chefs knife, and i know the finer edge wont hold up as well. Basically just was gets it sharper, i know its partially up to me.