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Wicked Edge custom rods/paddles

Recent Forums Main Forum Sharpener and Accessory Maintenance MODS Wicked Edge custom rods/paddles

This topic contains 26 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  tcmeyer 05/07/2016 at 1:08 am.

Viewing 12 posts - 16 through 27 (of 27 total)
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  • #31245

    CliffCurry
    Participant
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 461

    If money was not an object and had access to a machine shop, I would use Delrin… easily machined and you would not need to add additional machining for bushings.  

    Bill is this the stuff?  It looks great and not really all that expensive.  These guys will even cut it into strips for a few bucks more.  Verrrry interesting!
    http://www.eplastics.com/ACTLBLK1-00012X12

    #31248

    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    Cliff,  on small quantity raw material stock such as Delrin, since both of us have to pay the “paradise” tax penalty, shipping is nearly same for both of us, I normally go Amazon Prime.

    If you are interested in thermoplastic, beside Delrin, another alternative is UHMW. It has great attributes as well – But……in light of the grit environment….I personally would make and use replaceable press fit  precision machined PH wear bushing at both ends of paddle.

    Further, if that is the route chosen, I would personally much prefer, for durability in terms of more dimensional stability/wear factor, I would choose T6 along with PB machined bushings at both ends.

     

    Just a for instance, checked against local metal outlets and the web, this dimensional correct and stable T6 from Amazon with free Prime Shipping:

     

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H9JI66/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

     

    I bought two, one as an extra tool arm  and the one, top shelf, way in the background will be used for future custom cabinet frame mount tool post holder:

     

     

    Future two sets of tool holder for both vertical:

     

     

    And..horizontal position:

     

     

    So, if skill set and money is not the object…..basically, sky is the only limit….

     

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    #31267

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1669

    Thanks for sharing Victor! That looks like good stuff and you are very ingenious to be able to build that!!

     

    The reason I chose not to go w/ bushings is because I sharpen a variety of blades and some are very long. Even though I have extra long rods I think in certain situations the paddle will come off of the end of the rod and then when you bring it down again it will bump into the inside of the bushing. This way should be really smooth.

     

    #31268

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1669

    Hi Josh: Lookin’ good! Using shims to compensate for differences in block dimensions is what drove me to using the VSTA’s, but your setup is clearly better for finding true centers. Maybe your buddy can come up with a jig to perfect the block dimensions too – then you wouldn’t have to change shims. I think longer bushings would help to keep your bores more accurate – you can buy longer drill bits from McMaster so you wouldn’t have to drill from both ends. Certainly, the 0.375 bit will drill truer than the 0.250, making that more practical. I couldn’t get the 0.250″ to stay on true center for the full length.

    Thanks for the input Tom. Yes I may explore the idea of longer bushings at some point. I had to play around w/ a couple drill bits to find the one that would chuck into my hand drill w/ out much wobble (norseman hss bits, good stuff). It’s amazing how much variation there is bit to bit, I imagine it would be impossible to get a bit w/ out any wobble unless it were out of carbide! So even w/ this set up I would have a little ledge about the midway point on some of them, this could be due to the slight wobble in the bit or the bushings were too short. I noticed some play when the bit was in the bushings, not much so I just tried to center it when drilling. All this can be changed around thankfully! I think I will get some new bushings, undersize and polish/ream the inside a hair at a time until I get the perfect tolerances that are extremely smooth. For now, I needed function asap as my current stones are wearing out hehe

    #31271

    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    Josh,

     

    Your friend that made your custom rod used commercial available “drill rod”?

     

    Your custom rod’s threaded portion, appears to have used separate threaded stud…after drill rod’s end drilled/taped…short length stud threaded into end?

     

    Standard commercial precision oil quenched tool steel drill rod comes in 3′ length, so…in essence…your limit to rod length as well as paddle stroke to avoid bump hiccup is 3’….

     

    However, there is work involved in making two end bushing to remain concentric…if your friend is a Machinist, then, should be a piece of cake, since Journeyman Machinist are rarely self taught…certainly is a bit more involve to pursue precision…..

     

    Your response to “tcmeyer” regarding variation in drill bit runout among bits….If I may….sometimes, problem lays within the drill chuck

    If hand drill drill motor is not of high quality or was misused at some point in time, jaws within chuck will not engage drill bit properly….in that event, it helps to rotate drill bit shank slightly to re-position, hand tight, recheck several times till satisfied, before using chuck key….

     

     

    #31274

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1835

    Josh:  I don’t think “wobble” is the main problem with drilling long holes.  In a hand drill, any wobble is taken up by movement in the hand drill.  Variability in the material is what tends to drive the drill bit off course.

    I did a little video-watching on “gun drilling” which is the science of drilling deep holes.  Gun drills are actually very different.  For one, they are not twist drills. They are held stationary while the stock is turned in the chuck of a lathe.  The drill has a hole drilled thru its center, thru which lubricant is pumped to drive out chips, which are pushed out along a full length V-groove.  The tip is an offset carbide cutter.  The real key though, is that immediately behind the tip is a section that fits tight in the bore.  This guides the tip, holding it on course.

    Did you ever try that “tight tolerance” rod material from McMaster?  My bushings haven’t been a problem at all since I went to it.  My rods are 14″ long now and the bushings never slip off the rod end, although I don’t do any real long knives.

    I was interested enough to try the 3/8″ rod trick, but everything I needed added up to about $75, so I set it aside.  If I had a problem I’d be more inclined to try it.  BTW, I would have bought the 3/8″ ball joint coupling, then epoxied in a 1/4-28 set screw with a section of bushing to make up the rest of the fit.  I don’t have access to a lathe to turn the 1/4-28 threads on a 3/8″ rod.

    #31300

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1669

    Josh: I don’t think “wobble” is the main problem with drilling long holes. In a hand drill, any wobble is taken up by movement in the hand drill. Variability in the material is what tends to drive the drill bit off course. I did a little video-watching on “gun drilling” which is the science of drilling deep holes. Gun drills are actually very different. For one, they are not twist drills. They are held stationary while the stock is turned in the chuck of a lathe. The drill has a hole drilled thru its center, thru which lubricant is pumped to drive out chips, which are pushed out along a full length V-groove. The tip is an offset carbide cutter. The real key though, is that immediately behind the tip is a section that fits tight in the bore. This guides the tip, holding it on course. Did you ever try that “tight tolerance” rod material from McMaster? My bushings haven’t been a problem at all since I went to it. My rods are 14″ long now and the bushings never slip off the rod end, although I don’t do any real long knives. I was interested enough to try the 3/8″ rod trick, but everything I needed added up to about $75, so I set it aside. If I had a problem I’d be more inclined to try it. BTW, I would have bought the 3/8″ ball joint coupling, then epoxied in a 1/4-28 set screw with a section of bushing to make up the rest of the fit. I don’t have access to a lathe to turn the 1/4-28 threads on a 3/8″ rod.

    Which tight tolerance rod are you referring to? I may get some of the .375 to fit out my older gen rod arms I still have and use… I will have to measure these rods… I didn’t want to get too long if I can help it so the tips don’t bump into each other; do you find this is ever an issue? I’m guessing not! 😉

    That is amazing about the gun drilling!! Wow! I know on these holes I had a longer drill bit (probably 7″ long) new, that I tried first had much more wobble than the Norseman shorter bit did. So I know I had some issues w/ that but it is probably more that I need longer bushings maybe than anything.

    Josh, Your friend that made your custom rod used commercial available “drill rod”? Your custom rod’s threaded portion, appears to have used separate threaded stud…after drill rod’s end drilled/taped…short length stud threaded into end? Standard commercial precision oil quenched tool steel drill rod comes in 3′ length, so…in essence…your limit to rod length as well as paddle stroke to avoid bump hiccup is 3’…. However, there is work involved in making two end bushing to remain concentric…if your friend is a Machinist, then, should be a piece of cake, since Journeyman Machinist are rarely self taught…certainly is a bit more involve to pursue precision….. Your response to “tcmeyer” regarding variation in drill bit runout among bits….If I may….sometimes, problem lays within the drill chuck If hand drill drill motor is not of high quality or was misused at some point in time, jaws within chuck will not engage drill bit properly….in that event, it helps to rotate drill bit shank slightly to re-position, hand tight, recheck several times till satisfied, before using chuck key….

    Yes I believe he used commercial available drill rod! And you have it exactly correct, the one end was drilled and tapped and a stud installed =) Very good eye!!! Are you a machinist too Victor?

    #33915

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1669

    Well I ran into some issues making paddles w/ stock holes on them w/ tight tolerances… for some reason my drill bit is drifting in the hole a bit or something and causing a bend. That and the stock rods being able to be bent or not perfectly straight can cause issues w/ tight tolerances… But this threw me on another track… bore out the hole enough to where this doesn’t matter and then install linear bearings as bushings in each end. These are self adjusting so any curvature in the rods won’t make a difference. They are extremely tight tolerances w/ the stock rods with zero play and yet still smooth =) The key is to have rods long enough that the paddles won’t come off of the ends.

    Would be sweet to mill pockets for magnets into the faces and then just switch out stones/lapping films/strops all backed w/ a magnetic steel. Still trying to figure this out…

     

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    #33917

    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    Josh, I supposed you did not consult with your Machinist friend on how to drill a concentric hole doing the Machinist way?

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    #33919

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1669

    Josh, I supposed you did not consult with your Machinist friend on how to drill a concentric hole doing the Machinist way?

    I just asked him this morning… he said try peck drilling I think was the term… removing only 1/16 at a time. Do you have any more tips my friend? 

    #33925

    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    Peck drilling is new term for me..learn something new everyday! I get the picture!

     

     

    Basic skills such as drilling appears to be simple…truth of the matter is – the more your think you know…the more you realized how little you really know! 

    #33929

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1835

    If I remember correctly, peck drilling is a process of drilling only a very short time before backing the drill out then repeating the process over and over.

    Gun drilling, a process for drilling long, straight holes, uses a bit which is not a twist drill.  The bit has a single groove, running in a straight line from tip to shank.  The tip has a single carbide cutter and a small hole bored from one end to the other.  Coolant is injected under pressure to drive the chips out of the hole and up the groove.  Just above the cutting end is a short section of the drill which is full diameter.  This holds the bit on its axis, reducing any tendency to drift off-center.

     

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