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Very frustrating. First EDC knife

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  • #55742
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    So it feels crazy sharp but after scoping it I see all the chips. Side profile is very defined. I progressed up to 1200 grit

    Questions to you guys that work magic how would you proceed?

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    #55745
    Brewbear
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 168

    So it feels crazy sharp but after scoping it I see all the chips. Side profile is very defined. I progressed up to 1200 grit Questions to you guys that work magic how would you proceed?

    That may be explained by having scratches on top of scratches. If your stones are new, they will be more aggressive. If you follow Kyle’s technique, that will be the end result: a very functional edge without much polish. I’m not sure if you have a micro bevel on your edge but that is besides the point. As the more experienced members here will tell you, it takes a bit longer to get that polished edge. My routine is: at every grit change I check angles then use a scrubbing motion until I eliminate all the heavier gauges left by the previous grit and then I do a series of edge leading passes until I see a fairly regular pattern. That holds true for lower grits. At 800 grit an above I forego the scrubbing and use edge leading motion. I alternate between heel to tip and tip to heel : 800 grit heel to tip , 1000 grit tip to heel and so on, but always edge leading. This way you can see with a microscope if you fully cover the previous scratches. I start using a edge trailing motion when using DLF (diamond lapping film) or strops.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by Brewbear.
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    #55747
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    Thank you very much. When you say edge leading you mean your staring you pass from above the blade and come down passed the heal?

    #55748
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    Sorry I meant spine

    #55750
    000Robert
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 282

    Sorry I meant spine

    Yes, gently.

    #55752
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2027

    Hi Kenneth:

    I’m a little unsure of what I see in the photo. At the apex, it looks like the scratch pattern isn’t quite reaching the apex.  There’s a very narrow line along the apex that stands separate from the main bevels.  At first I would assume that this is a burr, but I’m also incline to believe you that this is a sharp edge, and that you’ve used it (which should have stripped off and burr.).  My guess is that you’ve formed an apex with the lower grits (which leave the same type of rough, chippy-looking edge) and then finished the higher grits at a lower angle. Maybe something came loose?  In any case, your photo does not show a normal, uniform bevel.  As brewbear suggests, the scratch pattern in general looks like it was made with stones which hadn’t been fully broken-in.

    #55753
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    Ok so I need to fix this Blade. Right side is reading 13.2 degrees and left side 13.1 degrees

    #55758
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    The bevel angle doesn’t really have anything to do with it.  Whether it’s 13°, 18° or 25°, it’s about technique, effort, consistency and attention to detail.  It may take you a good deal of practice, and for your sharpening stones to get broken in, first.

    You can’t discern a difference between 13.1°and 13.2° when it’s done properly.  Even 1/2° or more difference between bevels is hardly noticeable,  if it was done well.  Except maybe to those with sharpening experience and a good eye for details

    A lighted, magnified visual aid, (I prefer a USB microscope), is a helpful tool when used throughout the sharpening process to monitor your progress and keep you on track.  We’re attempting to do everything the same way and in the same place, grit after grit.

    For me, it’s all about repetition, consistency and attention to detail.

    Use this time as you break in your stones to put together a sharpening routine or regimen, your “technique”.   One that works well for you.  One that will give you what you consider are acceptable results.  It’s an individualized thing.  You’ll have to try to apply the methods you see others using in You Tube videos.  Mix and match.  Put together what works for you.  Many of us do this differently from one another.  Even still, we achieve just the same quality results.  Although, what is acceptable for you may not be acceptable for another W.E. user.  Like I said, it’s an indivualized thing.  The great equalizer is how well does your knife cut…how sharp it feels.  It’s hard to criticize a sharp edge.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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    #55762
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    Ty, I need to know how to proceed with a knife that has a 13 degree bevel on one side and a 16-17 degree on the other. Must I sharpen the 17 degree side down to the 13 degree to match?

    #55767
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    Why is it that way?

    A 60/40 or 70/30 uneven beveled knife is intentionally  made and sharpened that way, with different bevel angles on each side of the blade.

    Are these 13°/17° the uneven bevel angles of a new knife, a knife not sharpened by you, or are these uneven angles the result of your previous sharpening attempt?

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    #55776
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2027

    I think it needs to be said that a 13/17dps knife isn’t necessarily ground that way on purpose.  I’ve seen knives with as much as 8 degrees difference from one side to the other.  Such differences are a product of “eyeball” sharpening by the last fellow on the production line.  His instructions may be to try for equal bevel widths, with sharpness being the main criteria.  Almost all general-use knives are sharpened on belt sanders and spending more than a few seconds on each side would remove too much steel.  If he spends 10 seconds on the first side, he’ll then try to spend an equal amount of time on the other side, with the objective being equal-width bevels.  If the angles are different, the apex will be offset to the low-angle side, but not so much as to be noticeable by any lay person.

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    #55780
    Kenneth
    Participant
    • Topics: 26
    • Replies: 33

    How do I get the bevels to match? Do I have to take all the steel off the one side to make them both 13 degrees?

    #55790
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2027

    I’d sharpen the knife at whichever angle you think is appropriate for its intended use. For an EDC, I’d use 20 dps on both sides, taking fewer strokes on the wide bevel side each time . Try to move the apex toward the center, but don’t remove more steel than necessary to achieve sharpness.   For instance, you might take 10 strokes on the narrow bevel side, then only 3 strokes on the wide bevel side.  Continue the same strategy with each sharpening.  Eventually, the last evidence of the original 13 degree bevel will be erased and you won’t have wasted good steel.  The wider included angle will be more durable, further extending the life of the blade.

    Of course, if the obviously wide bevel drives you nuts, go for it.  Just try to move the apex toward the center of the blade as you go.

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    #55799
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    I share Tom’s assessment.  I’d be inclined to use the knife as it is and correct the mismatched bevel angles just a little bit each time as this knife needs sharpening in the future.  Especially if it’s a nice quality or an expensive knife.  You can easily remove too much steel, but you can’t ever put it back.  Some knives are shaped or profiled in a manner that they become very thick in the blade not too far behind the edge.

    More importantly, I’d be wanting to figure out what I did or what happened the first time sharpening this knife that gave me those results.  So I’m not destined to repeat it.  Something caused the bevel angles to be profiled that differently.  With the precision the W.E. affords used in conjunction with an angle cube, 4º difference in bevel angles is “a miss as good as a mile“.

    Were the stones on one side contacting the vise or the jaws? Did the end bracket(s) come loose and the arm position(s) shift?  Did the knife shift as clamped in the vise jaws?  Did the micro-angle adjuster(s) work loose?  Is your angle setting technique in need of improvement or just needs more attention and better execution?  Did something controllable lead to that outcome?

    In my experience, it’s unusual to find an EDC knife with bevel angles narrower than 20º per side.  13º per side is an unusually narrow bevel angle and may not be very practical for common use for most knives.  17° degree would not be unheard of for an EDC that’s been profiled to be a good slicing knife.

    Until you gain more experience it’d probably be a good practice for you to double check and verify your set angles at the onset of your sharpening attempt.  Then again before moving on past your starting grit.  It’s better to catch issues early.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    #55967
    Joe
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 27

    Quick question, when you are trying to change the angle of the bevel, say a 24 down to a 20 for example, when you lay the stone on that side, it’s going to probably contact the shoulder of the bevel, would you just take that angle with your angle cube, adjust the arm until the cube reads 20 and then go with that? or like if you wanna just take it down a little each time you sharpen it set the stone on the shoulder, and adjust until you are 1 degree less than the bevel that exists?

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