Uggggghhhhhh!!!!

[Lance Waller]

Just got done sharpening my Medford Marauder and I’m extremely unhappy with the results. The bevel is waaaaay to big. Is the best way to fix it just to set the angle on the WEPS to a smaller degree and just file away until the bevel gets to where I want it? I just don’t wanna take off a lot of steel here but I may not have a choice. Thanks for your input guys!

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[CliffCurry]

Did something similar on a small boker tanto blade…went for a low angle and ended up with the wide primary bevel just like yours(maybe wider). I was thinking the same thing as you, Im stuck. Thew it back in the drawer and tried to forget about it until you posted & reminded me. Thx :S

What angle did you set the bevel at? Maybe there is a compromise to be found in the middle somewhere. Either that or regrind the profile to thin the secondary bevel or flat, which is still beyond my comfort level at this point.

Good luck, will be interested to hear what Josh n others have to suggest. The other option is just to polish that bad boy up n pretend like we meant to do it that wide! 😛

[Ian Minton]

Create a micro bevel and use the heck out of it… Over the months as you use it when you bring it back to the stones grind at a more obtuse angle… You’ll be fine man…

It is quite even and nicely polished, well done there my friend!

[Zamfir]

There is nothing wrong with that bevel. If it looks the same width on the other side leave it and throw on a micro bevel. It looks nice and most people here like to thin out the main bevel anyway. Try it this way. If the edge is not holding up to your expectations throw on a little micro bevel at a more obtuse angle. I think it looks great. What angle did you work it to? Looks like a thick ass knife to begin with and probably needed the thinning like you did so it will cut better.

[Alan]

I agree with above two posts. Looks fine to me, not perfect, but fine. If you were to show that knife to anyone except a knife enthusiast, they would be impressed. I would use the heck out of it, and keep a sharp micro bevel on it. I think tanto grinds provide an additional challenge, for sure. I think you did pretty well myself.

Alan

[Josh]

I don’t see the problem w/ it… :unsure: That’s what happens when you are increasing the cutting ability by lowering the edge angle 😆

What a lot of people don’t understand is that all that metal was there to begin with… prior to sharpening. elementary I know but let me explain lol. What most think is that if you have a hardly visible edge then it will cut well and a really wide highly visible edge it won’t. But this can be deceptive either way. It all has to do with stock thicknesses and grind heights. So the metal was already there, actually, you removed some of it (i.e. the ‘shoulders’) and now the cutting ability is increased.

If you lowered it even more (like some that cliff has almost done HAHA) you would end up w/ a scandi type edge – but it would cut better than your edge.

But I frequently do edges like yours all the time… most people like them because they just look sharp. But in reality if you want ultimate sharpness you need a regrind. For example, take this ZT that had a very thick, jacked up edge. I could have simply cleaned up the bevel and sharpened it at 15 dps which would have put the edge thickness at around .060″ thick or so. Instead, I reground the primary grind and then set the edge at 15 dps where it should be, around .010″ thick at the shoulders. Now it almost melts through anything you throw it’s way.
x

I just finished this up earlier… had a thick messed up edge – After regrinding the primary all is well 😛

You can do the same thing on a belt sander… a lot of knife makers use the harbor freight 1×30 when beginning. But I would definitely practice on some junk knives first! :silly:

*unfortunately I can’t get the image posting to work on my pics from google + … sorry guys, just click on the links.

[Aaron]

Isn’t this just inherent with lower angles, especially with thick blades? Any time you reduce the sharpening angle you will end up with a larger bevel. I have done this with several of my knives and have been pleased with the results. The most extreme case was probably a Kershaw Shallot. It’s got a large bevel but sure does slice nicely!

[Leo Barr]

I think this is the way to turn out perceptively sharp blades I have to thin about half the knives I sharpen if I want to give a knife back that is shall we say race tuned otherwise they may as well sharpen their knives on a drag through device seems to be working mostly top restaurants are my cliental .

[CliffCurry]

Aloha Leo,
When you say “race tuned” do you mean without a giant 1/8-1/4 inch apex bevel? :whistle:

Im just now getting more into the thinning aspect as it seems to come up more n more as a necessity to get that world class razor thin slicing ability. The Japanese knife I did recently opened my eyes as its secondary bevels almost came to an apex leaving me to just tune the 1/16th inch apex with very little material removal or time involved.

Maybe the subject of thinning could use with some more serious discussion on here. I know traditionally one would use bench stones, or a powered belt system.

The mod I did to my WE allows one to thin the blade down to under 2 degrees as needed but not sure what media to use on/for the paddles…I was thinking of attaching a medium size stone(maybe 1/2″x 3″x 7″) to a blank paddle but could use a recommendation or 2 regarding what stone grit/type to use?

[Daniel maloon]

As others have said its a nice looking edge. Id leave it alone. Its the nature of the beast.

[Leo Barr]

I thin most knives except some knives like Victorinox that is the thin ones.
I always put a bevel on the edge of the thinned edge.
Steel around the mid 50’s Rockwell will go like tin foil if the edge is too low an angle .
I made a mistake on a cnefits from thinning heap Deba I had bought that was a 56 on the Rockwell scale I took the secondary bevel to the edge having raised the angle about 1/3 of the way downI then put an edge bevel spanning from around 15˚ at the tip and 22˚ at the heel and then put a small micro bevel on top +5˚ ish the blade was good and sharp . the next morning I cut some cheese and bread it felt good – then I checked the edge again and it was blunt the edge I suspect had compressed so I re-sharpened the edge adding about 10˚ and all seems fine now.
I conclude that the soft steel just compresses when carrying too low an angle. Hard steel will tend to micro chip if the angle is too low.
These angles are unaffected by how much thinning is behind the edge (secondary – thinning bevel) soft or hard steel still benefits from thinning on the secondary bevel if there are noticable holders from the main grind to the edge it is fair to assume that the knife needs thinning . Best proof of this is that a metal spatular will cut a carrot with an unsharpened edge simple because the spatular is thin this proves the worth of thinning a blade I don’t use a vernier to measure thickness I just pinch the profile gentle working down from the spine to the edge it is possible to feel if the profile is too thick the shoulders are obvious. Best to thin progressively over several sharpening sessions if unsure of how much to do.
It is best once the angle for thinning is established for a blade to repeat the procedure on each sharpening so unfortunately no real time is save but the knife will cut very well as I said (race tuned).
I hope that helps a little it is much easier to do on laminated blades due to the soft cladding which is why I prefer Japanese knives.

[Zamfir]

Agreed on most all points. Except how much thinning you do on certain blades that may be used differently. Say, a gutting or deboning knife. If it is a softer steel and you thin it too much but put a wider micro bevel on it it works in the chopping or slicing just fine. But a gutting and deboning knife for me would include the task of dejointing some parts of the animal. This involves digging into the joint and some rocking and twisting of the blade. You have to be careful how much you thin out a blade like this. But for most every other use, I totally agree. And agree to do this with my hunting knifes. Bu they are usually harder steel and are up to the task at 17dps with a +5 micro bevel. Nice post Leo!

I thin most knives except some knives like Victorinox that is the thin ones.
I always put a bevel on the edge of the thinned edge.
Steel around the mid 50’s Rockwell will go like tin foil if the edge is too low an angle .
I made a mistake on a cnefits from thinning heap Deba I had bought that was a 56 on the Rockwell scale I took the secondary bevel to the edge having raised the angle about 1/3 of the way downI then put an edge bevel spanning from around 15˚ at the tip and 22˚ at the heel and then put a small micro bevel on top +5˚ ish the blade was good and sharp . the next morning I cut some cheese and bread it felt good – then I checked the edge again and it was blunt the edge I suspect had compressed so I re-sharpened the edge adding about 10˚ and all seems fine now.
I conclude that the soft steel just compresses when carrying too low an angle. Hard steel will tend to micro chip if the angle is too low.
These angles are unaffected by how much thinning is behind the edge (secondary – thinning bevel) soft or hard steel still benefits from thinning on the secondary bevel if there are noticable holders from the main grind to the edge it is fair to assume that the knife needs thinning . Best proof of this is that a metal spatular will cut a carrot with an unsharpened edge simple because the spatular is thin this proves the worth of thinning a blade I don’t use a vernier to measure thickness I just pinch the profile gentle working down from the spine to the edge it is possible to feel if the profile is too thick the shoulders are obvious. Best to thin progressively over several sharpening sessions if unsure of how much to do.
It is best once the angle for thinning is established for a blade to repeat the procedure on each sharpening so unfortunately no real time is save but the knife will cut very well as I said (race tuned).
I hope that helps a little it is much easier to do on laminated blades due to the soft cladding which is why I prefer Japanese knives.

[Josh]

Agreed on most all points. Except how much thinning you do on certain blades that may be used differently. Say, a gutting or deboning knife. If it is a softer steel and you thin it too much but put a wider micro bevel on it it works in the chopping or slicing just fine. But a gutting and deboning knife for me would include the task of dejointing some parts of the animal. This involves digging into the joint and some rocking and twisting of the blade. You have to be careful how much you thin out a blade like this. But for most every other use, I totally agree. And agree to do this with my hunting knifes. Bu they are usually harder steel and are up to the task at 17dps with a +5 micro bevel. Nice post Leo!

I thin most knives except some knives like Victorinox that is the thin ones.
I always put a bevel on the edge of the thinned edge.
Steel around the mid 50’s Rockwell will go like tin foil if the edge is too low an angle .
I made a mistake on a cnefits from thinning heap Deba I had bought that was a 56 on the Rockwell scale I took the secondary bevel to the edge having raised the angle about 1/3 of the way downI then put an edge bevel spanning from around 15˚ at the tip and 22˚ at the heel and then put a small micro bevel on top +5˚ ish the blade was good and sharp . the next morning I cut some cheese and bread it felt good – then I checked the edge again and it was blunt the edge I suspect had compressed so I re-sharpened the edge adding about 10˚ and all seems fine now.
I conclude that the soft steel just compresses when carrying too low an angle. Hard steel will tend to micro chip if the angle is too low.
These angles are unaffected by how much thinning is behind the edge (secondary – thinning bevel) soft or hard steel still benefits from thinning on the secondary bevel if there are noticable holders from the main grind to the edge it is fair to assume that the knife needs thinning . Best proof of this is that a metal spatular will cut a carrot with an unsharpened edge simple because the spatular is thin this proves the worth of thinning a blade I don’t use a vernier to measure thickness I just pinch the profile gentle working down from the spine to the edge it is possible to feel if the profile is too thick the shoulders are obvious. Best to thin progressively over several sharpening sessions if unsure of how much to do.
It is best once the angle for thinning is established for a blade to repeat the procedure on each sharpening so unfortunately no real time is save but the knife will cut very well as I said (race tuned).
I hope that helps a little it is much easier to do on laminated blades due to the soft cladding which is why I prefer Japanese knives.

[/quote]

^ someone’s got experience processing animals!! hehe, I’ve got a couple pigs to slaughter this coming winter… I should play around w/ how thin is too thin lol. I have a couple cheapish dexter russel knives I can play around w/

[Leo Barr]

I should have made a point of saying that deboning knives, cleavers & gutting knives I would not thin ; that aside most kitchen knives or even edc’s used for slicing perform best when thinned.
Many Japanese knives have a pronounced thinning bevel an American example of this are Carter knives when sharpening it is necessary to work on the thinning bevel before moving to the edge bevel.
Nice point brought up in braking down an animal the knives may well need to be twisted through joints to separate parts – a thinned knife may well snap.
One thing I imagine even when braking down an animal there are probable applications for both thick and thin blades.

[Zamfir]

Oh yeah totally! In the field I carry a little beefer knife but when it comes to the butchering and cutting of the meat off the bone, you for sure want a thinned edge and more narrow blade. I knew you knew that Leo..just putting the note in there for the fellers that did not think about it in that way. It really makes a difference on the usage and what kind of steel the blades are.

Interesting story, I had a couple of Victorinox butcher blades. One was a flexible boning the other was the same shape but not flexible. My Cousin proceeded to show me how to take the head off of a deer with a blade by working it between joints and wiggling it around. He used the flexible boning knife for it. When he was done, the edge was all wavy and tweaked. I ran it flat while pushing really hard against the edge of the counter so it was bending the whole way a bunch of times on each side. Eventually it took the waves out and I touched it up and still use it. It freaked me out at first. I was very surprised I was able to fix it in the way I did. Those are great value blades BTW. That is the set I keep in the camper. They sharpen up quick and sharp and hold an edge decently. If this was a harder steel, It very well may have chipped..not sure but could if too thin.

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