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Touching up edge on 1k or 1500 diamond stones

Recent Forums Main Forum Touching up edge on 1k or 1500 diamond stones

This topic contains 8 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Hogdog 05/20/2019 at 4:01 pm.

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  • #50517

    Derek Shaffer
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 1

    Really getting the hang of my new wicked edge but have a question. Recently sharpened my microtech utx85 and love using the wicked edge so much I find myself wanting to constantly touch up the edge on the 1k or 1500 stones. Will doing this too frequently remove a bunch of steel, or am I basically just polishing the edge each time? Would it be a bad thing if I quickly touched up the edge on 1500 stone very frequently, dont want to remove any more steel than I have to on a $270 knife

    #50518

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1855

    Derek, everytime you take a diamond abrasive to your steel you will remove some steel.  No matter how small an amount it is.  If you feel a need to touch it up I suggest you use a leather strop.

    The issue I see is if you don’t just use your knife and enjoy it till it truly is in need of sharpening you’ll never realize how durable and long lasting the edge is.  That is, you won’t see the true potential of that steel and the edge profile and angle it’s been sharpened to.  If you give yourself that opportunity you’ll be able to determine if changing the angle and profile improves the edge durability, longevity and overall cutting ability.

    It also gives you the opportunity to learn and recognize the cutting characteristics of different types of steel.  By comparing that steel in that knife with other steels in other knives.

    I see it like replacing the tires on your car every 1000 miles?  We use tires till they wear out.  Then we know if they were any good and worth buying again or should we go with something different and maybe better.

     

     

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #50519

    Hogdog
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 15

    Completely agree with Marc on Using a strop to do as many touch ups as possible. May I also suggest when you do need to touch up with diamonds use a micro bevel as to take as little as steel as possible.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #50520

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 183

    What is the rule of thumb for the angle difference when using a micro bevel say on your typical Kitchen knife sharpened to 20 degrees?  Do you then strop afterwards and at what angle?   Or is this just for fancy folders that are really low angle to start with?

    #50521

    Jeff
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 16

    I don’t know if there is a rule of thumb with micro bevels.  I’d run between 3 and 5 degrees difference to the primary angle and is what I have seen others do.

    While the desired edge angle is dependent on what the knife is going to be used for, it is also very dependent on steel type.  I run some of my kitchen knives as low as 12 dps (no micro bevel).  They are quality Japanese blades in comparatively hard steels.  My folders are for the most part Spyderco models also in some more of the “exotic” steels and some of those are very hard (Maxamet, S110v) , yet I would never run them as low because of what I use them for as work knives.  My personal preference on them is 15 dps.  Sometimes I add an 18 dps micro bevel on the ones that see the harder usage.

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    #50523

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1834

    I think that there’s two different reasons for adding a microbevel.  The first is to add a toothy quality to the edge, which greatly improves performance on certain slippery items to be cut.  This might be animal tissue, where the tissue is not firmly held in position, as with surgeons’ scalpels used to cut very slippery internal tissues or mucous membranes.  The second purpose is to reduce the chance of chipping at the edge, where the preferred angle is quite low and the steel is quite hard.  In either case, I’ve found that the microbevel angle should be at least three degrees higher.  Lesser differences will make it much less of a “microbevel ” and more of a simple, second bevel.

    Since I rarely create bevel angles much greater than 20 dps, my default angle for a microbevel is usually 20 dps, leaving me at 17 dps or less for the main bevel.  Lower main bevel angles result in even more fragile edges.

    For what it’s worth, I do not believe that microbevels have much positive effect in reducing the chance of edge chipping.   At least with angles close to my 17/20 configuration.  My ZDP-189 knives seemed to be as willing to chip with a microbevel as without one.  If you were to pick a microbevel angle more than maybe 5 degrees higher, the edge would be substantially more “blunt” and perhaps result in a more effective edge protection.  Chipping is a function of edge strength and toughness and the chips I’ve experienced have been deeper than the microbevel was tall.

    Advisory:  If you look back at my first paragraph, you’ll note that my views on chipping is meant to apply to harder blades. Softer blades will succumb to dents and dulling, rather than chipping.  I don’t think a microbevel is going to help there either.

    5 users thanked author for this post.
    #50524

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 183

    I think that there’s two different reasons for adding a microbevel. The first is to add a toothy quality to the edge, which greatly improves performance on certain slippery items to be cut. This might be animal tissue, where the tissue is not firmly held in position, as with surgeons’ scalpels used to cut very slippery internal tissues or mucous membranes. The second purpose is to reduce the chance of chipping at the edge, where the preferred angle is quite low and the steel is quite hard. In either case, I’ve found that the microbevel angle should be at least three degrees higher. Lesser differences will make it much less of a “microbevel ” and more of a simple, second bevel. Since I rarely create bevel angles much greater than 20 dps, my default angle for a microbevel is usually 20 dps, leaving me at 17 dps or less for the main bevel. Lower main bevel angles result in even more fragile edges. For what it’s worth, I do not believe that microbevels have much positive effect in reducing the chance of edge chipping. At least with angles close to my 17/20 configuration. My ZDP-189 knives seemed to be as willing to chip with a microbevel as without one. If you were to pick a microbevel angle more than maybe 5 degrees higher, the edge would be substantially more “blunt” and perhaps result in a more effective edge protection. Chipping is a function of edge strength and toughness and the chips I’ve experienced have been deeper than the microbevel was tall. Advisory: If you look back at my first paragraph, you’ll note that my views on chipping is meant to apply to harder blades. Softer blades will succumb to dents and dulling, rather than chipping. I don’t think a microbevel is going to help there either.

    So it sounds like your conclusion is the only thing it does for sure is add some tooth just where it is needed  to help cut Meat or other slippery items.   And  from what others have said, it allows for a refresh without a lot of metal removal when Stropping alone won’t fix it?

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    #50525

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1834

    So it sounds like your conclusion is the only thing it does for sure is add some tooth just where it is needed to help cut Meat or other slippery items. And from what others have said, it allows for a refresh without a lot of metal removal when Stropping alone won’t fix it?

    I didn’t mean to imply that microbevels are only good for toothiness, although for my practical purposes that is my opinion.  Perhaps there are some applications where a microbevel is better than nothing – as when the edge is so acute and fragile that a microbevel removes the finest edge before it will certainly be fractured.  Perhaps there are steels which do benefit from microbevels – but none of the steels I use.  My experience is simply that a true microbevel doesn’t seem to mitigate chipping on an edge of less than 20 dps.

    Regarding toothiness, Clay has reported success with microbevels as coarse as 200 grit.  I usually use 1000 grit and apply just three or four very light strokes per side.  When done, the microbevel is barely visible to the naked eye.

    I think skinning knives are an example where higher bevels angles are preferable, as very acute edges will easily slice a hole in a hide you wished to have tanned.  I’ve done a few where I’ve polished 22 dps bevels to 1 micron and then added a 25 dps microbevel at 600 grit.  Unfortunately, I have no clue if the users have been pleased or not with the configuration.   I think I’ll have to send one of my skinners to Clay, as he has by far the most opportunities to try.

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    #50526

    Hogdog
    Participant
    • Topics: 0
    • Replies: 15

    I run micro bevels on all of my EDC’s for the touch up reason you were asking about.  I generally sharpen  at 17* with a 20* micro bevel. When I touch up very little steel is removed. Use this on all my Leatherman’s and a few others.  I also micro bevel my kitchen knives using more acutely angles.  As far as adding a toothy edge I too go with 1000 grit with 4 – 5 very light strokes  used on all my kitchen cutlery.

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