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Touch Up Progression

This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Josh 10/24/2018 at 9:36 am.

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  • #25313

    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 173

    Hi All,
    What progression do some of you use for just touching up a knife that you have sharpened before to a Wicked Edge? Blade is not nicked, or roughed up, just not sharp any more.
    I have tried touching up some knives that I have done before, but cant get it back to a hair whittling edge. I can get it sharp, just not scary sharp unless I start from scratch like it was the first time I did it. When I touch up I start at 800 diamonds – micro fine ceramics.

    #25314

    JS
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 109

    I’ve tried different things based on where the knife was finished. I had a PM2 that I sharpened to 15 dps and 0.5 micron and whittled a bunch of wood. The edge got some small rolls in it so I put it back in the vise and started at 5, 3.5, 1, and 0.5 micron and I got my hair whittling edge back with no rolls.

    Have also had knives I’ve finished at 1000 grit that were not clean paper slicers after some use. Put it in the vise and only about 5-10 light swipes with the 1000 grit brought it back to original sharpness.

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    #25317

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 1636

    The only serious touching up I do is on my ZDP Delica. I go 800, 1000, then a quick polish with 6 and 3 micron film.

    I found that you really have to nail the existing angle if you intend to start with 800’s. If you are even a little too low, even if only 0.2 of a degree, it’ll take a lot of work to reach the apex… Which is why you find the need to start over in your progression. A little higher angle not so much.

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    #25318

    Lukas Pop
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 109

    Hi, creating microbevel should help.

    #25323

    Steven N. Bolin
    Participant
    • Topics: 47
    • Replies: 456

    I can get it sharp, just not scary sharp unless I start from scratch like it was the first time I did it.

    I think you may have actually answered your own question. And it’s a great one!

    Like Tom (tcmeyer) said, you pretty much have to be dead-on with every single calibration point. The WEPS indeed boasts precision and repeatability, and rightfully so. However, no system is perfefect and such a boast is honestly made within a vacuum. The catch of it all is that the vacuum reveals it is in fact possible. I’ll also say this, the user is definitely not perfect and is dependent upon the system in more ways than one.

    In order for you to match the angle exactly to get it back to hair-whittling sharp depeds on multiple factors. Effectively documenting these factors and reapplying them correctly is a difficult task, regardless of your skill set. For example – the exact placement of a particular knife in the clamp, the varying stone thicknesses and how they relate to the overall +/- degree fluctuations relative to that particular knife and the height of the edge above the clamp, quantifying the user’s pressure and the differences thereof across the entire stone progression across multiple sharpening sessions with a particular knife, the placement of the user’s hands on the paddles, whether the stones were actually flipped from left to right or flipped upside down, etc. etc. The list goes on and on, and it reveals the only true constant – Unfortunately, it’s nearly impossible to recreate that vacuum… Especially with a ffg blade!

    Thankfully, the WEPS answers to a higher power that in reality dictates nearly everything in the realm of sharpening – Geometry.

    Imho in terms of day-to-day performance of an edge, although it’s super fun to accomplish and to show off, it’s really not all that detrimental if it can’t whittle hair 😉 … Think about it… It’s almost impractical to try keeping a general utility knife that sharp… Again, even though IT! IS! A! BLAST!

    Hi, creating microbevel should help.

    That said, a micro bevel is a beautiful thing in terms of daily maintenance… And it allows you to keep your edges mirrored! The key is not to turn putting on a micro bevel into a surgery-like situation. A few passes with light pressure at a more obtuse dps. And BAM! you’re done.

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    #25333

    Lukas Pop
    Participant
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 109

    KnifeKnerdAtX, Great analysis!

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #25340

    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 173

    Thanks Guys,

    I was looking for a short cut to not have to use the 200 to raise a burr (save some metal), but as with a lot of things shortcuts are sometimes not a good idea.
    At least if its a touch up a few strokes with the 200 should bring a burr back very quickly.

    KnifeKnerd, excellent explanation about how difficult exact repeatability is.
    For a quick touch up looks like a micro bevel is the best way to go. Would you go 1 or 2 Deg higher, with 1000 diamond or ceramics? with very light few strokes.
    Thanks

    #25341

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 1636

    PinkFloyd: Do you use the Sharpie method to find your “sweet spot?” Do you find it difficult to duplicate the earlier profiles and angles?

    I lost my reference scale: The stainless strip which is graduated “A”, “B” “C”, etc. Like many others, I keep a sharpening log on which I record the clamping position and the distance from the tip of the knife to the front edge of the vise in millimeters. If the knife isn’t a typical configuration, I also take a photo of the knife in the vise with a small digital camera. Having replicated the mounting position, using an AngleCube to set the angles should put you on the money.

    Since I have a computer on my sharpening bench which I use for my handheld microscope, I also use it for my sharpening log book. I use Excel, but there are several other spreadsheets available for low $$. Corel has Quattro Pro bundled with their suite of applications.and Microsoft Works also has a spreadsheet. Normally I use just a Bluetooth optical mouse, but I also have a small Bluetooth keyboard handy for data entry.

    There’s no reason why you couldn’t keep a pencil & paper log book.

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    #25342

    Pinkfloyd
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 173

    PinkFloyd: Do you use the Sharpie method to find your “sweet spot?” Do you find it difficult to duplicate the earlier profiles and angles?

    I lost my reference scale: The stainless strip which is graduated “A”, “B” “C”, etc. Like many others, I keep a sharpening log on which I record the clamping position and the distance from the tip of the knife to the front edge of the vise in millimeters. If the knife isn’t a typical configuration, I also take a photo of the knife in the vise with a small digital camera. Having replicated the mounting position, using an AngleCube to set the angles should put you on the money.

    Since I have a computer on my sharpening bench which I use for my handheld microscope, I also use it for my sharpening log book. I use Excel, but there are several other spreadsheets available for low $$. Corel has Quattro Pro bundled with their suite of applications.and Microsoft Works also has a spreadsheet. Normally I use just a Bluetooth optical mouse, but I also have a small Bluetooth keyboard handy for data entry.

    There’s no reason why you couldn’t keep a pencil & paper log book.

    Mr Meyer,

    Yes I use a sharpie, Angle Cube, Tap Forms on iPhone 6+ to record a photo and settings in a data base. Still with all of that I agree with KnifeKnerd about exact repeatability, starting with a high grit stone to sharpen again. I have to get in the habit of using my usb scope when sharpening also.

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    #25345

    Steven N. Bolin
    Participant
    • Topics: 47
    • Replies: 456

    Would you go 1 or 2 Deg higher, with 1000 diamond or ceramics? with very light few strokes.

    I think best thing is just to play around with a few different dps and go from there. I typically add 3-5 dps. And there’s no harm in playing around with a few different stones other ceramics to see what you like.

    I recently reprofiled a Benchmade 551H2O to 15 dps fished at 600 grit and stropped with 5/3.5 micron on balsa. Then 1000 grit at 20dps for the micro bevel. Then hand stropped the micro bevel at 1 micron on balsa. It cleanly cuts phonebook paper, which for my EDCs I’m more than happy with.

    #25348

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
    • Replies: 1636

    Pink:

    I was just checking to find where you were on the learning curve… Seems that you’re pretty well along. The points I & KinfeKnerd touched on were intended to guide you to a perfect configuration for re-sharpening.

    As you may know, I’m the forum’s leading horn tooting for use of USB microscopes throughout the sharpening process. If you’ve got one, it will tell you exactly why you’re not getting the results you hope for. It may take a while to clearly understand exactly what you’re looking at.

    And you needn’t call me Mr Meyer unless you’re under the age of 18; I’ve been retired for 8.5 years. 😛 Tom or TC is just fine.

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    #47936

    Travis Santelmann
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 5

    This thread was very informative. I can’t wait to get off work at 5! I’ve got a Wicked edge WE52, Angle Finder, and some additional strops/stones sitting on my front porch! Woohoo! Ready to sharpen my PM2 in S110V.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #47942

    Josh
    Participant
    • Topics: 89
    • Replies: 1668

    I normally re-set the edge once to 15 dps, then maintain for a LONG time at 17-19 dps with a microbevel at 600-1k grit. of course, it would depend on what you are going for edge wise =)

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