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  • #56760
    Jason
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 1

    Currently my setup is WE100 with 100,200,400,600,800,1000,3000 5 micron paste, 3.5 micron paste.

    1) My concern is, I can get a bur and polish for a mirror edge but the edge doesn’t seem to retain much. It will feel sharp for sure but just doesn’t slice paper much after sharpening.

    2) I tend to get different angled blemishes on the bevel. I think I have solved this problem.

     

    My technique is as follows:

    If first time sharpening I will start with 100. Scrubbing with vertical strokes until I get a bur. Switch sides with same process. Once second burr is created, I do alternating strokes .

    Move to next stone doing same process as previous stone. When I hit 600 I will do some circular strokes in scrubbing along with vertical strokes to work the scratches out. 600 and above I do not look for bur. Last night I sharpened and visually checked for the blemishes and did extra vertical strokes and it seemed to get rid of those weird blemishes.

     

    Am I doing something wrong that is causing the blade to not be able to cut paper consistently or is that edge retention in the blade steel? I’ve seen this in s35vn and D2 knives.

    #56761
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    Couple things to look at:

    Are your stones broken in yet?  It takes a minimum of ten knives to just get them started on the way.  Are you using each grit long enough.  Longer is better then not long enough.  You can not over do it.

    Consistency is key.  Strive for consistent finger position on the sharpening stones and consistent finger pressure.  Consistent sharpening strokes, techniques or methods and stroke directions and variety, stone after stone helps you to better see the results of your efforts.  I prefer to use each grit the same.  Same strokes, same directions and same pattern.  Consistency and repetition.  Grit after grit after grit, the same routines.

    Forming a burr is not a bad thing.  It’s often avoided in the later or finer grits.  The burr is the physical manifestation, that is the physical proof that your sharpening strokes are reaching the edge of the knife, that is the apex.  That’s what we’re trying to do.  It’s not a bad thing to produce a burr.  It’s a bad thing to produce a burr and leave it there or to not remove it.  Until you gain more experience it may be prudent to form the burrs.  I use alternating side edge leading strokes as the last sharpening strokes at the end of each grits regimen to be sure I’m removing the burr and exposing the sharpened apex.

    I found it’s better not to work one side alone with a scrubbing stroke to produce a burr, as you described, then to switch to the second side to produce it’s burr.  With that one sided method the second side’s burr often forms quicker and often before the entire second side bevel is formed and fully shaped. My preferred method is to always work both sides alternatingly in a manner to keep the amount of time and effort worked on each side balanced.  This keeps the apex centered on the knife’s thickness and the bevels more equal in size.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #56762
    Jason
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 1

    My stones may be broken in. I’ve done maybe 15 knives.  I do think I’m using them enough.  I take my time sharpening.  A knife start to finish for me can take 45 minutes,  but I am getting more comfortable and faster in the process.

    I have noticed the bevels being slightly different due to time spent on each side. It’s something I need to focus on. Alternating time spent.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated!

    #56782
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2027

    I suggest not using vertical scrubbing strokes unless you are doing some serious reprofiling and have a ways to go before reaching the apex.  Circular strokes will also contribute to what you see as blemishes.  If you are concerned about the appearance of the bevels, try to use unidirectional strokes, alternating the direction between grits.

    Everybody seems to settle on a particular technique.   Mine is as follows:

    I use edge-leading strokes almost exclusively.  Edge-leading reduces the chance for breaking pieces of the apex away.

    For each set of handles, I stroke down-and-toward me for the coarse side, then down-and-away from me for the fine side.   This gives me alternating scratch patterns for me to erase with each succeeding grit.

    I always grasp the handles with my thumb on the second groove from the bottom and my index finger on the opposite side groove.  My middle finger falls in the bottom groove.  Ring finger and pinkie tucked into my palm.  This position for the most part keeps the pressure below the edge, reducing the chance of cutting myself and the possibility of the stone acting like a teeter-totter as the stone goes above the edge.  Such a motion will re-cut your apex to as much as two or three degrees less acute.

    I try to always check the scratch pattern between grits to see if I’ve erased the scratches from the previous grit, but more importantly, it tells me if my angle has changed.

    I also check the apex with my microscope between grits to see if the are any defects that need to be corrected.  If I see light reflected where none had been seen before, I know that this is most likely a burr.  As Marc says, burrs are good, in that they tell you if you’re working the apex, but they need to be removed.  Usually, a few, very light strokes with the opposite stone will remove them.

    4 users thanked author for this post.
    #56783
    000Robert
    Participant
    • Topics: 6
    • Replies: 282

    I suggest not using vertical scrubbing strokes unless you are doing some serious reprofiling and have a ways to go before reaching the apex. Circular strokes will also contribute to what you see as blemishes. If you are concerned about the appearance of the bevels, try to use unidirectional strokes, alternating the direction between grits. Everybody seems to settle on a particular technique. Mine is as follows: I use edge-leading strokes almost exclusively. Edge-leading reduces the chance for breaking pieces of the apex away. For each set of handles, I stroke down-and-toward me for the coarse side, then down-and-away from me for the fine side. This gives me alternating scratch patterns for me to erase with each succeeding grit. I always grasp the handles with my thumb on the second groove from the bottom and my index finger on the opposite side groove. My middle finger falls in the bottom groove. Ring finger and pinkie tucked into my palm. This position for the most part keeps the pressure below the edge, reducing the chance of cutting myself and the possibility of the stone acting like a teeter-totter as the stone goes above the edge. Such a motion will re-cut your apex to as much as two or three degrees less acute. I try to always check the scratch pattern between grits to see if I’ve erased the scratches from the previous grit, but more importantly, it tells me if my angle has changed. I also check the apex with my microscope between grits to see if the are any defects that need to be corrected. If I see light reflected where none had been seen before, I know that this is most likely a burr. As Marc says, burrs are good, in that they tell you if you’re working the apex, but they need to be removed. Usually, a few, very light strokes with the opposite stone will remove them.

    That’s exactly how I hold my stones.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #56786
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2474

    I use alternating sides vertical scrubbing strokes, as the first sharpening strokes, in my sharpening process or routine with each and every grit sharpening mediums I employ for every knife I sharpen or touch up.  The aggressiveness I use and the amount of steel I remove is controllable and intentional.  It is determined by my applied pressure and the force used with the scrubbing strokes against the knife’s edge.   Just the same, I can use these same vertical scrubbing strokes with very lightly applied pressure and minimal force.  So the amount of steel I remove is easily changed.  Scrubbing strokes are a quick and efficient way to precisely direct your sharpening stone’s actions, to correct or remove damaged knive edge steel.  I use vertical scrubbing strokes to shape or reshape the bevels for everything from the very first time I sharpen a knife and profile it’s bevel angles, to doing just a quick light touch-up to bring back the original or previous edge’s sharpness.  The results are user driven or user controlled depending on how aggressively we apply the vertical scrubbing strokes.  It may take time, effort and practice to learn how to use the vertical scrubbing strokes effectively and efficiently.

    I use this alternating side technique with each and every different sharpening stroke type or style the stroke direction I use.  This is to keep my knife edges always centered and balanced.  That is both in bevel heights and position on the knife edge.  My alternating strokes can be left-right-left-right-left-right or left-left-left-left-right-right-right-right-left-left-left-left-right-right-right-right.  The amount of time, effort and number of strokes I employ are determined by what I’m attempting to do and how much steel I choose to or need to remove.  The object of this exercise is to keep the effort balanced to both sides of the knife to maintain the even edge appearance and to keep the apex centered on the knife edge’s thickness.

    I also sharpen or work most knife edges in portions then overlap the portions.  Again, this is to keep the effort balanced.  An 8″ chef’s knife for example, I may break it up into 3 or 4 shorter length portions.  I work the shorter sections just like I would for the whole knife edge alternatingly, side to side, then I use overlapping strokes to blend the sections so the entire length of the knife edge is done evenly, uniformly and consistently.  I found it difficult to move the relatively short, 5″ long W.E. sharpening stones up, down and across the entire length of a 6″ to 8″ (or even longer) knife edge without the sharpening strokes becoming almost horizontal or longitudinal to the knife edge.  This technique, sharpening in shorter portions,  allows me to have better control over the direction of the sharpening strokes and scratch patterns I’m applying relative to the knife edge.  When finished there’s nothing that indicates or suggests the knife was sharpened by portions in this manner, either visually or otherwise.

    I end each grit in my sharpening routine with alternating side edge leading sharpening strokes, (down and onto the edge), to remove any remnants of a burr or wired edge created during the sharpening processes and to fully expose the sharpness I achieved with each grit.  Then I move onto the next finer grit and do it all over again, starting with alternating side scrubbing strokes.

    Stropping mediums and lapping films I only use edge trailing.  That is up and off of or up and away from the knife edge.  That’s not to say these mediums can’t be used with other direction strokes. Just that I don’t do that.

    I am not saying how I do this is the only way or the best way to use your W.E., or how someone else does it is incorrect or not as good.  Just that this way I use my W.E. sharpeners are what I’ve found works well for me.  This is simply how I prefer and like to do it.  The bottom line is the W.E. is simply a precision bench vise that holds a knife securely and stable to free up both of our hands.  The adjustable guide rods allow us to set the angles to use our sharpening stones, polishing stones and other mediums in a regular, repeatable and consistent manner.  We can use any of the mediums any way we choose to, to achieve the results we are looking to produce.  That is the user’s choice.  Time and practice will help you find how you like to do it and which method works best for you.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

    2 users thanked author for this post.
    #56789
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2027

    Hy guys i need info

    Hi Amelia:

    What sort of info do you need?  Chances are at least one of us can provide the right info, assuming it’s something less than R rated.

    #56960
    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 175

    I don’t go higher than 1600 because mostly I’m doing kitchen knives but I scrub for a burr on every single stone and then stroke until all the vertical scratches are gone. Here lately, I’ve been stopping at 1000 and even there, I can slice phonebook paper every time. You have to apex the edge all the way through the routine and not stop at 600.

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