The 2 “One” Knives – Small

[Clifford Begnaud]

This is part 2 of the thread titled ” The 2 “One” Knives – Large

For the second knife I want something fairly small and with a modern “super steel”. I started off looking at small fixed blade knives until it occurred to me that this knife doesn’t need to be fixed blade. It can be a folder. Since it will be used for caping and deboning, it won’t be subjected to any heavy use that would be inappropriate for a folding knife. Also, using a folding knife could save weight and bulk.
This opened up a whole new world of knives with a wider selection of steel. While searching I found the Spyderco Stretch with ZDP-189 steel. Now this is truly a “super” steel. I had never used this steel before but I became very eager to try it. I found a Stretch for about $100 and ordered it.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=631

It arrived yesterday afternoon. I finished sharpening it today, including some re-profiling and convexing of the edge. Resulting edge is approximately 34 degrees inclusive. A progression of chosera stones down to 10k were used, followed by a variety of strops down to .01 micron diamond spray on Kangaroo.
Well, the only knives that I have seen that can compare are our two Japanese kitchen knives, one a Moritaka Guto with Aogami Super steel, the other an original Shun Elite boning/filet knife in SG2 (64-65hrc on both) Those two knives enter a realm of cutting ability that most people never experience. This Spyderco Stretch has entered that realm of sharpness.

What I don’t know is whether that blade shape will be appropriate for caping, deboning and skinning. What do you think? I still need to get one more knife in this category so I’m looking for suggestions
Thank again,
Cliff

[Geocyclist]

I posted in the Large post. See there.

If you are looking for a folder then I do like the Benchmade Adamas 275, or a Griptillian, not as expensive, different steel options, lighter weight.

[Johpe]

In zdp-189 you also have the Spyderco Endura 4 which I think is really nice. And in another “super steel” you have the Benchmade Barrage 581 in m390 which I think beats anything I have for the moment, the knife is maybe on the heavy side for some, but I just think it feels real solid. When the hunting season starts here (mid august) I’ll put the Barrage 581 through some real world tasks instead of just cardboard cutting.

The m390 is really a solid performer so I’m actually trying to find a chef’s knife in m390, but that is proving to be difficult.

[Clifford Begnaud]

Those are all great suggestions. While I like D2, for this project I want to stick to a PM type steel. I would like to try something in M390 so let me know if you see any other options with that steel.

johpe, there are a few Gyuto (chef) knives with m390 available. I don’t know if you have used Japanese style chef knives, but once you do, your western style chef knives will go mostly unused.
visit http://www.chefknivestogo.com
Use the search box and input m390. You will see a few choices. My preference for a Gyuto is a length of around 240 mm. There is only one around 240 mm on that site that I could find in m390, this one:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riulm3st.html
The others all appear to be 210 mm. Some people like the shorter length, but these knives are very light weight and balance well at 240 mm. You really should scale up the length when choosing a Gyuto. Having said that, I would still pick a 210 mm Gyuto over ANY western style chef knife. Also search youtube for Richmond Ultimatum, there are several reviews. See this one:

Just fyi, I would pick a Gyuto with the worst steel in the world over a Henkels/Wustof/Sabatier or other thick,heavy western style chef knife, with the best steel in the world. (is that a dramatic enough statement for you? 😉 )
If you want to discuss Gyuto knives, just pm me.

[Johpe]

Thanks, I’ve actually been in contact with Mark Richmond about the Richmond Ultimatum but it is out of stock and he wasn’t sure there would be any more. 🙁

The next step would be the 21cm Artifex, but I also prefer a 24cm chef’s knife (and I’d like it to be a wa-gyuto as well), so I haven’t decided what to do there yet.

[cbwx34]

You might take a look at Kershaw’s Blur line… those can be found in a variety of steels: CPM-154, ZDP-189, S30V, S60V, SG-2 (although some of these may be hard to find). Even their 14C28N does a good job. Clay has one in ZDP-189… if I recall he posted somewhere that he liked it for some of his hunting/camping chores (which is why I thought of it as an option.)

[Ken Buzbee]

For a folder, Spyderco is about to release a Native 5 in S110V. My ultimate knife (at least I’m thinking it will be)

You’re ZDP Stretch is a great knife as a slicer. I have one in FRN and one in carbon fiber. That hard steel can be a little fragile in hard use. Just a heads up.

For a small fixed blade, a Bark River Ultimate EDC in CPM-M4.

Ken

[Phil Pasteur]

This is OT for this discussion, but, I have this knife.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar21gym3.html

I like it. Maybe I am just not good enough, but I don’t miss the 3 cm. Price is right, steel takes a great edge and it stays sharp longer then most of my other knives.

I also have this:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/riar24gy.html

I have found the AEB-L to be a very good steel.

I use the m390 at 21 cm more often.

Again, it may just be that my technique and level of accomplishment in the art is not sufficient to recognize how some nuances effect the process. But I have not found anything that either of those blades cannot do equally as well. I do not have any high end kitchen knives to compare, but I do know when a blade cuts well..
🙂

Now we return to our original programming… ?

Thanks, I’ve actually been in contact with Mark Richmond about the Richmond Ultimatum but it is out of stock and he wasn’t sure there would be any more. 🙁

The next step would be the 21cm Artifex, but I also prefer a 24cm chef’s knife (and I’d like it to be a wa-gyuto as well), so I haven’t decided what to do there yet.

[Johpe]

Now we return to our original programming… ?

Yes, absolutely, and thanks for the info!

Native5 in s110v sounds great if you can wait for it. There is also a Manix2 XL in s90v coming out which seems very nice as well, I think it’s a knifeworks exclusive.

[Ken Buzbee]

There is also a Manix2 XL in s90v coming out which seems very nice as well, I think it’s a knifeworks exclusive.

Correct, it is a KW exculsive.

Ken

[Phil Pasteur]

I would recommend taking a look at the Manix 2. They are out there in lots of different steels. Som are hard to find. S90v and M4 are a couple. But, even if you forgot about the exotic steel requirment and went with the ones that are available in CTS BD1 full flat grind, I am sure the knife would do what you need it to do.

This is the one I own and am basing the recommendation on:
http://thrumylens.org/featured/review-of-the-spyderco-manix-2-cts-bd30p-edc-perfection/

There is another, the Kershaw Rake, that looks like it may be a reasonable choice. The composite blade is FFG with a D2 edge. I really like the way the D2 takes an edge. I haven’t beat this knife up much, but for light duty the D2 seems to hold an edge well. While you wouldn’t want to twist or pry with the knife the D2 has excellent wear resistence and toughness. So, it holds an edge well. I think the shape of this blade might make it usefull for the tasks that you metnioned. I like the assisted opening feature as well.

http://www.thekershawstore.com/Kershaw-Rake-Composite-Plain-Knife-p/k1780cb.htm

A bit of shopping will find better pricing.

For a folder, Spyderco is about to release a Native 5 in S110V. My ultimate knife (at least I’m thinking it will be)

You’re ZDP Stretch is a great knife as a slicer. I have one in FRN and one in carbon fiber. That hard steel can be a little fragile in hard use. Just a heads up.

For a small fixed blade, a Bark River Ultimate EDC in CPM-M4.

Ken

[Clifford Begnaud]

Philip,
You have great taste in kitchen knives, I enjoyed the diversion.
I really appreciate all of the suggestions from everyone and will investigate each one.
Cliff

[Author]

Posts