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Stones direction? Uniform or circles?

Recent Forums Main Forum Techniques and Sharpening Strategies Stones direction? Uniform or circles?

This topic contains 36 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Nicko 04/03/2019 at 3:28 pm.

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  • #38389

    Readheads
    Participant
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    Mark76 — 33% import tax ? — that’s just crazy; What country are you in and what happens to the tax revenue ? Just wondering as I am totally against protectionism/isolationism.

    Basic questions relative to all these strokes:   It would seem to me that we should be striving to minimize the strokes and pressure needed to get the edge we want. While raising a burr at 100 grit lets us know we are at the apex, I also think we may be overstressing the edge (micro bonding) and may be setting up micro chipping during use. It seems like every blade I come across to sharpen has micro chipping under a 250x USB scope. We go through all this trouble to control the angles/grits (WEPS) and then yield to macro (visual) to determine the micro (edge retention). I am fascinated by the feel and sounds during the strokes and am interested in ideas related to real time feedback data.

    What are these sounds telling us about the apex ?

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    #38393

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
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    I wanted to weigh back in and add by no means should you misconstrue that I only use an up/down scrubbing motion. This is always what I start with to verify to myself my arm angle setup is correct for that particular stone grit. I vary the direction of the stroke tailored to shape the metal and remove the scratches as needed. I almost always end, each grit stone, with a bilateral, edge leading, heel to point direction strokes. This, for me, assures I am evening out the apex, removing or leveling any burr I may have raised and assuring I am still apexing the edge of the edge. All in all, I do try to limit direction or scratch pattern changes as much as possible.

    I rarely start with a grit coarser than 400 grit diamond stones. This in itself limits creating the deeper gouges from coarser stones (50/100). If I need to use diamond stones such as for hard metals or ease of re-profiling I follow the grit progression all the way through (400/600/800/1000/1500) then lately I have been switching at that stage to Shapton’s Diamond Glass Stones starting with 500 grit and work up through the progression as needed to remove the scratches and polish the bevel with some very good results. I need to spend more time using the diamond lapping films to see how I like them.

    I usually finish the whole progression by stropping to give me that slick paper cutting edge without any snags.

    I’m generally not producing a “Razors Edge” – Josh’s polished look but for my personal kitchen knives they’re pretty dang polished.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #38397

    Mark76
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 179
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    Mark76 — 33% import tax ? — that’s just crazy; What country are you in and what happens to the tax revenue ? Just wondering as I am totally against protectionism/isolationism.

    It’s the Netherlands. But many countries in the EU have such tariffs. I must add that 19% of this is VAT, which also applies to Dutch goods, but still…

    And I completely agree with you about protectionism/isolationism.

    I must say that I also usually sharpen based on feel and sound, but it’s very hard to me to describe that in words.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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    #38401

    sksharp
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    • Topics: 9
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    Never ceases to amaze how the sharing of information seems to help everyone of us. Thanks for starting this Nicko.

    The one thing that I think has helped me the most is to start with, for me, medium pressure on the stone and then as I hear and feel the stone grabbing or cutting if you will, less and less I will begin lightening up on the pressure that I apply to the stone, lighter and lighter and then repeat with every stone after. Learned this from watching several of Clay’s videos right from the start, but it did take a while to put into practice. Something I work on every time I sit down behind my WEPS.

    Thanks to all of you who contribute and help those of us with less expertise and experience.

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    #38439

    Nicko
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
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    Hi guys.

    Mark, that’s a crazy amount of tax. I’ve ordered a few things from the states, particularly fishing gear and haven’t been taxed yet! Vehicles are different, 10% on them and some admin fees I’m told.

    Marc I know what you meant, that sounds like a good method and makes complete sense. Sounds like a USB microscope will be very handy, are people just using fleabay cheap ones?

    SK I have been using ultra light pressure on the last few strokes in each stone, but have been using light pressure the rest of the time. When my jewellers loupe arrrives i’ll be very interested in seeing how the edge looks after different pressures, i.e. Medium versus soft, and then when finishing a stone, how much super light pressure helps if at all. It feels to me like the super light pressure would be nicely aligning scratches etc, especially on the really fine stones like the 1000 but I guess a loupe or microscope will really show this.

    when the spyderco arrives i’ll spend some time on it trying a lot of the techniques you guys have mentioned, thanks.

    just wondering if it’s worth going through sandpaper from 2000-10000 grit? I thought after the 1000 stone that this could be interesting then strop to get a really nice polish, just interested in seeing how fine the sandpaper gets the scratches, then whether i could get a nice mirror edge going. Or if 1000 stones scratches could be buffed out by a lot of stropping? 1200-1400 stones worthwhile or should i go to ceramic or diamond film, or try the sandpaper progression? Just for a fun mirror edge. I think for kitchen knives and fillet knives i’ll mainly just go to the 1000 stone for a toothier edge, with a little micro bevel included. Have put a microbevel on most of my home knives now, will be interested to see how they go, mostly 20-22(MB) but some 18-20(MB).

    Cheers thank you for the replies guys.

     

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    #38468

    Nicko
    Participant
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    Just a quick update, my two largest kitchen knives are 20-22(MB) and my wife just exclaimed that cutting on a wooden chopping board, one of the knives was getting stuck in the chopping board lol. I asked her to please chop lighter!

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    #38469

    Mark76
    Keymaster
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    LOL. I use one of those thin plastic cutting boards from IKEA. I think they cost 1 or 2 EUR a piece. I’ve destroyed two already.

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

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    #38471

    Nicko
    Participant
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    I’m not unhappy that my knives aren’t safe for cutting boards haha. Wish i could find some that cheap!

    washing up knives tonight and after some chopping (food) i’m still really happy with the edge they have!

    #38472

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
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    my wife just exclaimed that cutting on a wooden chopping board, one of the knives was getting stuck in the chopping board 

    Nicko, I had this happen when I first started to get the hang of using the WE. My knife results were very sharp and very toothy edges, As the stones broke in better the toothiness became less evident and they were just really sharp. Stropping after sharpening also helps smooth the toothiness

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #38481

    Nicko
    Participant
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    thanks Marc, it’s nicer looking as a polished edge but I’m really liking the quickly honed edge with no stropping and the results I’m getting. ATM. I have been stropping quite a few knives though too.

    #38489

    Nicko
    Participant
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    I dug through some drawers and found a really old boning knife, so had to wicked edge that knife haha.

    I found my wife’s favourite kitchen knife, this little 5″ knife she uses for pet food and she banned me from sharpening it. I did try the old “a blunt knife is dangerous” line but no luck!

    I’m now using one of the recommendations from this thread (thank you). I use up and down and small circles to create a burr on one side without removing the stone, then i repeat on the other side to form a sharp edge. i then do about ten strokes down and away, next stones i repeat the process but towards and down to aligh the scratches. Works a treat and going lighter snd lighter during those ten strokes doesn’t seem to hurt!

    Thanks guys, advice os working well. Can’t wait for the loupe to arrive so I can concentrate on making sure the scratches are removed from the previous stone and aligned etc.

    Big thumbs up to you all, cheers.

     

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    #38499

    Organic
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    I dug through some drawers and found a really old boning knife, so had to wicked edge that knife haha. I found my wife’s favourite kitchen knife, this little 5″ knife she uses for pet food and she banned me from sharpening it. I did try the old “a blunt knife is dangerous” line but no luck! I’m now using one of the recommendations from this thread (thank you). I use up and down and small circles to create a burr on one side without removing the stone, then i repeat on the other side to form a sharp edge. i then do about ten strokes down and away, next stones i repeat the process but towards and down to aligh the scratches. Works a treat and going lighter snd lighter during those ten strokes doesn’t seem to hurt! Thanks guys, advice os working well. Can’t wait for the loupe to arrive so I can concentrate on making sure the scratches are removed from the previous stone and aligned etc. Big thumbs up to you all, cheers.

    I think we all can relate to the search for an un-sharpened blade. I’ve now resorted to asking friends for knives to sharpen. A few days ago, I put a beautiful mirrored edge on a 7 inch cutco chef knife for a friend. I cringed a little when they admired my work and then proceed to put the knife back into their kitchen drawer with a hodgepodge of other implements and no blade gaurd. 

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    #38502

    MarcH
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    Give them a couple Band-Aids, warn them to be careful reaching into the drawer, and write it off as another knife you can count on to sharpen again in the future, “job security”. I can relate to your hurt feelings for their lack of respect for the pride you feel in the sharpening job you did for them.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #38505

    Nicko
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    Haha, i’m taking the sharpener to work on friday, we have some blunt knives there and some factory edges, i’ll have some fun making them sharp! I’ve told the guys to bring their favourites in too…

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    #38509

    Organic
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    Give them a couple Band-Aids, warn them to be careful reaching into the drawer, and write it off as another knife you can count on to sharpen again in the future, “job security”. I can relate to your hurt feelings for their lack of respect for the pride you feel in the sharpening job you did for them.

    It didn’t hurt my feelings. My concern was for the knife! You are right; that knife will be needing a touch-up in the not so distant future.

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