Shapton Pros

[John Brandeis]

Hi,

I just purchased a very slightly (essentially brand new) used WE with ProPack 2 upgrade from a Kitchen Knife Forum. I’m excited to dive into the community here. I have a newbie set of questions to kick things off.

Here are the stones/strops that came with my system. Atoma 140/Shapton Pro 320 – Shapton Pro 1000/2000 – Shapton Pro 5000/15000 – Balsa 1/.5 micron – Kangaroo .25/.125 micron.

I’m brand new to WE and pretty new to sharpening. So, I imagine this set is way above my skis at the moment. But, I’ll get there. Here are my questions and I appreciate any guidance given. (I’ll be sharpening my kitchen knives, of which I have many, EDCs, and perhaps a straight razor or two.)

1) Isn’t the 5000/15000 paddle a pretty big jump? I’ve searched the forum and google and haven’t been able to find this particular progression mentioned anywhere.
2) If I wanted to supplement what I have where would I buy the stones. They don’t seem to be offered here at WE. I suspect they were at one time??
3) Any general advice for a newbie with this setup?

Thanks

Johnny

[Leo Barr]

I have some Shapton glass bench stones and I jump from 8K – 16K essentially the 5K & 15K are honing stones and are really either for finishing 5K or for progression to razor honing .
Clay has a link somewhere for razor sharpening using the WE .
I believe the Shapton pros are closer to Choseras the glass are closer to ceramics .
Jende Industries do Shap[tons for the WE
http://www.jendeindustries.com/products/sharpening-products/shapton/category/143-shapton-weps-stones

[John Brandeis]

Thanks for the heads up on jende industries. I found some very useful and interesting information on their blog. I’m still unsure if I need the 8000 to bridge the gap between 5 and 15, but I suppose the answer will come clear as I use and break in the stones. Truth be told I’ll likely only go up to 5,000 for awhile anyway, until I get comfortable and somewhat practiced with the system.

Another interesting find was the fact that some of the stones in the lineup are designed specifically for carbon steel and others for stainless. I fear the rabbit hole is quite deep here. I must be careful not to completely fall in. 😉

[Leo Barr]

Once you get to the finishing grits 1K upwards the pressure should be reduced by at least 50% if not more finishing probable with just enough pressure to make contact and ideally with edge trailing strokes only since you are really only honing . This further decreases the grit differences for example is is standard practice to go from 1K to 5/6K to finish on bench stones .
10K ,15K /30K are really for honing razors if a knife is finished this way it will need retouching every time it is used it is similar to race tuning an engine the higher the tuning the more it needs maintaining it is normal say with a straight razor to strop or hone it after every use, in my mind this is totally impractical for any knife that is going to be used .
I see some makes show their knives push cutting sisal or manilla rope this is not a practical way to cut rope as a rigger the rope is normally cut with a sawing motion so a polished edge just becomes more polished using it in a sawing motion so after 1 / 2 cuts the edge is lost so the toothier edge is needed for most things unless the steel is exceptional and the edge is very fine like with a sashimi knife then the blade can be polished a bit more but in general 1K honed with 5K is more than enough for good blades and 800-1K is good for most edges .
So to sum up the jump you are talking about is academic.
With the correct technique it is possible to sharpen on a paving stone and newspaper so I would for the immediate future make do with what you have the 15K is for honing a razor.

Leo nav

[Mark76]

Hi Johnny,

You’re a lucky bastard, if you pardon my words. I saw the ad at KKF and wondered who would want to get rid of a setup like this. I’ve got the Shaptons myself and I LOVE them. They’re my favourite WE stones (unless I want a mirror finish, in which case I use the Choseras).

There are multiple sellers of Shaptons for the WE. Jende Industries was already mentioned and I got mine from Ken Schwartz. And I think Oldawan offer them, too.

From practice I know that the jump from 5 K to 15 K is well doable. You may be tempted to use more force since you think the jump is large, but as Leo said: don’t. The edge is already so thin and you’ll ruin it.

And 15K may be very high and normally only for razors, but some of my kitchen knives definitely benefit from it, particularly shirogami and Sandvik 13C26/19C27 steel.

Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

[John Brandeis]

Ha! Thanks Mark. Your words are pardoned and advice appreciated. Good to know there are some KKF nuts here too. I figured everyone on that forum was a hand sharpener. The knife database here seems a bit barren when it comes to the “good stuff” kitchen knife-wise. Something I’ll endeavor to improve upon once I feel I can contribute.

Leo, I see what you’re saying about function and technique. Its going to be a fun journey as I explore the non-linear spectrum of function, science, and art of this new hobby of mine. I sense I’ll enjoy all three aspects. And, while “function” is a certainly a subjective term, I think most would agree it’s the beginning and the foundation.

Seems like this is going to be a great resource for me. The breadth of knowledge shared on these pages is certainly impressive (and time consuming! ;-)). Thanks to all who have made it so.

[Leo Barr]

I to use KKF excellent it is to plus I have the app on my
IOS devises.
I have gone to plus 5K on my Honyaki Nakiri the edge it that fine it seems to slip through most vegetables the same would apply to a Yanagi where a glazed finish is desirable.
Jon of Japanese Knife imports suggested that European knives anywhere from 600-1200 Japanese 1K-5k then Yanagi or similar 5-8K.
The high grits should be for the honing more than the edge making so the edge is not too deeply polished (in general)

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