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pricing and set up questions for fares?

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  • #33882
    matlocc
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 8

    What do you usually charge per knife and how do you determine angle to begin at or just stick to 18-20 degrees?

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    #33888
    CliffCurry
    Participant
    • Topics: 42
    • Replies: 461

    Many people charge by the inch, some charge by the type of knife(pocket, kitchen, etc).  Some charge also by the level of sharpness or finish i.e. standard 600 grit toothy edge vs 3000 grit mirror polish.

    Changing the bevel angle(reprofiling) also can add much time to the job.  Angle matching with a sharpie would be the quickest and least expensive for a customer.

    Then you have damaged or chip blade repairs.  They can take even more time then a simple angle reprofiling depending on how deep the damage is.

    Many variables, and in my experience most people dont have the willingness to spend a fraction of what the knife cost to repair it…unless it was truly expensive and even then?

    This beautiful $800 sushi knife came in last week.  It has an 11″ single bevel blade and the chip out is massive and truly painful to look at.
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    13106536_10207994794940700_2119453451_o

    The young chef is not wanting to spend “more then $20 or so…” to repair.   Even with a water cooled belt system there is hours n hours of work here to reprofile then entire bevel and keep it even.  The backside will need reprofiled as well because the chip goes up under the softer cladding steel.

    To repair this would be a high water mark of skill in the art of sharpening(for me), but is it worth +5hrs of highly skilled labor?  For $20-25 bucks?   Ummm nope…not for me, not on this one.  It would seem there is an invisible fine line between trying to make a name for yourself and also under valuing your own skills and time?

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    #33892
    M1rrorEdge
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 222

    Agree totally, thanks for sharing Cliffcurry!

    Eddie Kinlen
    M1rror Edge Sharpening Service, LLC
    +1(682)777-1622

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    #33893
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 123
    • Replies: 2936

    Cliff,
    I totally agree as well. I might offer to buy it from him if he’ll sell it cheap and then rework it for myself.

    -Clay

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    #33897
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2031

    Auch bei mir.

    I do think that the price of any sharpening job should reflect in some way the value of the blade.  There is always some risk that you need to be compensated for.  Ruin a $500 knife and the customer’s not going to be happy.

    Yesterday I received a couple of chef’s knives from my sister’s condo in FL.  One is an 8″ Henckel which had been sharpened badly, leaving a concave section near the heel.  When held against a flat surface, you could see a little less than a mm of daylight showing through.  The steel is so hard, it took more than 100 firm strokes with a relatively neww 400 grit stone, trying to flatten the 2″ of edge back to a workable profile.  I spent about two hours on it last night and expect to spend another two today.

    If I was charging a paying customer, I’d have to make about $120 on the job.

    #33900
    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    This posting is rather philosophical based on general observations – so please don’t take it as an insult on anyone!

    First off, most people appears to seeing $$ signs after having acquiring WE or any sharpening tools for that matter – as witnessed on loads of postings among forums and rather piles of lackluster ytube vids.

     

    Unfortunately, most people don’t appreciated the efforts or how sharp is sharp. Beside, knife sharpening and fine knife collection/appreciation is but a tiny minority.

     

    Unlike the traditional cast system of Japan, even dwindle to modern day – where extreme appreciation into the minuscule is ever present, not saying its not present in other cultures but Japan takes it to another level….

     

    Having much similarity to this thread – sharpening and cost; where in Japan, there exist a dedicated few of minority Togishi – where in old/modern Japan, only a few obtained that honored title, it is only through decades of apprenticeship when accepted, tutor under a reputable Togishi, as well as competitions with other up and coming talented hopefuls…..there in the competitive events, shown their craft….end results painstakingly by hand – then recognized with the honored elvsive 1st place title…..it is thru Togishi, as in the past, whom, Samurai warriors or today’s aficionado depend on to bring true meaning of life onto their blades……

     

    Even today…when and if a Togishi, agrees for the undertaking of bringing life onto a blade….monetary will never be spoken, rather, a deep humble bow and asked humbly “do your best to bring life onto my blade!”….leave and join many others ahead of you, depends of these few notable Togishi…..waiting patiently….in many cases – years! But rest assure….when finally in hand…it will be work of art, done by a Master Togishi!

     

    As an example, if the maker still exist in the future…since I don’t use these knives…I will only trust the maker to perform the resharpening task….

     

     

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    #33902
    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 2031

    The steel is so hard, it took more than 100 firm strokes with a relatively neww 400 grit stone, trying to flatten the 2″ of edge back to a workable profile. I spent about two hours on it last night and expect to spend another two today. If I was charging a paying customer, I’d have to make about $120 on the job.

    I started out at 15 dps and proceeded with my 400s, going edge-leading.  All was going well, but extremely slow and I momentarily lapsed into a scrubbing motion.  I caught myself within a dozen strokes or so and on inspection with the ‘scope, found a dozen or more deep chips in the edge which I know had not been there before.  Add another two hours and increase the angle to 17 dps.  Still a chip here and there – where I know I’ve applied to much pressure.  Cleaned it up as well as I could, then polished the 17 dps to 3mu, even with a few very small chips showing.  Then applied a 20 dps microbevel using 1000 grit and 9 mu film.  Then I found that I had removed enough edge that the concave at the heel had returned.  The knife is still not done.

    I’m concluding that the blade (Zwillig Henckels) which is labeled “ice hardened” stainless, has probably been hardened, but not tempered.  It’s harder than hell and brittle as hell, too.  Interesting, the dull edge showed no sign of chipping until I closed the included angle.  The chipping seems to happen primarily with edge-trailing strokes and to some degree with high pressure.  The clue for me should have been how hard it was to flatten the edge.

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    #33908
    Victor
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 80

    The steel is so hard, it took more than 100 firm strokes with a relatively neww 400 grit stone, trying to flatten the 2″ of edge back to a workable profile. I spent about two hours on it last night and expect to spend another two today. If I was charging a paying customer, I’d have to make about $120 on the job.

    I started out at 15 dps and proceeded with my 400s, going edge-leading. All was going well, but extremely slow and I momentarily lapsed into a scrubbing motion. I caught myself within a dozen strokes or so and on inspection with the ‘scope, found a dozen or more deep chips in the edge which I know had not been there before. Add another two hours and increase the angle to 17 dps. Still a chip here and there – where I know I’ve applied to much pressure. Cleaned it up as well as I could, then polished the 17 dps to 3mu, even with a few very small chips showing. Then applied a 20 dps microbevel using 1000 grit and 9 mu film. Then I found that I had removed enough edge that the concave at the heel had returned. The knife is still not done. I’m concluding that the blade (Zwillig Henckels) which is labeled “ice hardened” stainless, has probably been hardened, but not tempered. It’s harder than hell and brittle as hell, too. Interesting, the dull edge showed no sign of chipping until I closed the included angle. The chipping seems to happen primarily with edge-trailing strokes and to some degree with high pressure. The clue for me should have been how hard it was to flatten the edge.

     

    Right on! Quality work takes efforts!

     

    It was not a knife! Your effort reminded me on one particular job I was involved in back in my past life as a Journeyman ToolMaker!

     

    Work involved 95% flatness restoration on an eight inch diameter stellite clad gate valve gate sealing surface…resulted warpage, after exposure to high cycle repeated super heated condition…work involved 3 Journeyman Toolmaker…three 8 hrs. shifts around the clock….first roughed out on surface grinder….then begin the tedious hand work…combination of carbide hand scrapper + assortment of w/d emery progression…blue check flatness % using calibrated surface plate…repeat…followed with repeat after repeats – got the point?….FIVE days later…independent Inspector verified, bought off 95% flatness verification – on one side of gate….then…same work needed to repeat on the other side of stellite clad gate…..

     

    Quality not only take skill – it also takes time…..

     

    On this particular example’s primary bevel, took me close to 40 hours getting to the mirror, but I prefer secondary toothy, little time getting there:

     

     

     

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    #36789
    tuffy braithwaite
    Participant
    • Topics: 184
    • Replies: 360

    $3.00 to $10.00 bucks for me, but i use several belt sanders……….

    i charge $25.00 to $30.00 each if i use WE………..$25.00 for this one, few weeks back.

    .

    about 10 mins. on this chip…..belt work.

    .

    set ups

    .

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    #36795
    tuffy braithwaite
    Participant
    • Topics: 184
    • Replies: 360

    i also charge extra for clean up and polishing…….$2.00 to $5.00 ea.

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    #36814
    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 64
    • Replies: 2486

    The steel is so hard, it took more than 100 firm strokes with a relatively neww 400 grit stone, trying to flatten the 2″ of edge back to a workable profile. I spent about two hours on it last night and expect to spend another two today. If I was charging a paying customer, I’d have to make about $120 on the job.

    I concluding that the blade (Zwillig Henckels) which is labeled “ice hardened” stainless, has probably been hardened, but not tempered. It’s harder than hell and brittle as hell, too. Interesting, the dull edge showed no sign of chipping until I closed the included angle. The chipping seems to happen primarily with edge-trailing strokes and to some degree with high pressure. The clue for me should have been how hard it was to flatten the edge.

    Tom, I had a similar experience with Miyabi 7000 Birchwood Knives, similar hardened steel, also Zwilling. I quit using the diamond paddles, now I’m using Shapton Wet Stones on these hard steels. It’s been a big investment and quite another learning curve. Also using leading edge strokes. Getting good results now.

    Marc

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-Its)

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