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Oops, how did I just make these scratches?

Recent Forums Main Forum Techniques and Sharpening Strategies Basic Techniques and Sharpening Strategies Oops, how did I just make these scratches?

This topic contains 39 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  MarcH 10/23/2019 at 1:13 pm.

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  • #50003

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
    • Replies: 289

    Or how to turn a rally nice folder into an everyday user :o(

    I set this 3 inch blade up with the low angle adapter (LAA) accessory as not using it for an angle of 18 degrees with this knife the paddle would hit the vice.

    So instead seems somehow my paddles hit the side of the bevel!

    I only got to the 200, 400 grits and looked through my 10x loop to see my progress and I noticed these light vertical scratches.  I was using the regular stroking pattern with the 100’s, but it was taking so long to raise a burr (a harder premium steel CPM-S35VN) like over 30 minutes on the first side that I started a light up and down scrubbing motion along with my regular strokes to cut the time down.

    I’d like to know how I put the scratches in so I don’t do it again???

    The scratches are very light, so I might be able to polish them out with a Dremel and their polishing accessory that I have along with some polishing compound.  This has worked for me before when I put a folded knife with polished handles into the same pocket with my keys and it put light scratches on the polished

    If I can’t get the scratches out then I have to send it into Chris Reeve for a new blade (probably $75) and then their $17 UPS fee for postage back.  Plus I lose it for 4-8 weeks which is their usual turn around time.  Expensive lesson!

    What did I do wrong.  The paddles are on a rod locked into a plane at 18 degrees.  I don’t know how the paddles could have put those scratches in?

    Thx

     

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    #50006

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 11
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    So how did you find out the paddles hit the vice at 18 degrees?  Did you clamp the knife without the LAA and set your stones to 18 with the cube and then realize you were hitting the vice.. maybe hitting the side of the knife at the same time?  These scratches don’t look like sharpening scratches they looks like the stone sliding around like it does when setting an angle and you are trying to see if the stones are hitting the vice due to the odd sound it makes…

    Just a guess as I have done similar  but it was a  worn out 60+ year old parring knife that had been Grandmas..

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    #50007

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
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    Thanks for your response airscapes.  I sarted out first with no LAA, but no strokes as I could see right away at 18 degrees with this 3 inch shallow blade I would be scraping th top of the vice.  So I set it up with the angle cube in the LAA at 18 degree and I had decent space from the paddles to the top of the vice.

    I’ll copy Clay on this to see if he is around as I’m sure he has seen this user related issue before.

    #50011

    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 121
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    Expedia,

    It looks like the stones are able to hit the side of the blade below the shoulder when the knife is mounted in the LAA. You might try to check it by putting some tape over the surface of the stone and then resting the stone against the blade to see if it’s hitting the side rather than sitting on the edge. Some people use a stop collar to prevent the stone from sliding all the way down the guide rod when sharpening very tall blades or when using the LAA. I sometimes will wrap a rubber band around the guide rod to act as a stop collar for the same reason.

    -Clay

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    #50012

    NorCalQ
    Participant
    • Topics: 32
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    I’m a relative newbie, however when I started out, I encountered the same problem.  Without realizing it, occasionally the bottom end of my stroke was traveling below the bevel.  This meant that the top of my stone was going below the bevel. In the above scratch pattern on the side of the blade, you can see the how the stone traveled down below the edge, then the stroke bottoms, then travels back up to the bevel.

    I still do this occasionally, but with tape and awareness of the issue, I’m improving.  Hope this helps.

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    #50015

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
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    Expedia, It looks like the stones are able to hit the side of the blade below the shoulder when the knife is mounted in the LAA. You might try to check it by putting some tape over the surface of the stone and then resting the stone against the blade to see if it’s hitting the side rather than sitting on the edge. Some people use a stop collar to prevent the stone from sliding all the way down the guide rod when sharpening very tall blades or when using the LAA. I sometimes will wrap a rubber band around the guide rod to act as a stop collar for the same reason.

    Thx for that quick response Clay.  I checked with Chris Reeve and another blade is $150 plus $17 UPS coming back.  I also have to send them the whole knife as they custom fit the washers and blade to each handle.  I might have some luck trying to polish the scratches out before I spring for a new blade. I do like the idea of using rubber bands as a stopper as I was probably getting sloppy with the paddles since it was taking so long to raise that initial burr.  Hopefully, I won’t repeat my error if I get a replacement blade using the rubber band suggestion.

    Paul

    #50019

    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 121
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    @expidia, you might try reaching out to Josh at Razor Edge Knives to see if he can clean it up for you. He does pretty phenomenal work.

    -Clay

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    #50022

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
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    Thanks Clay I might touch base with Josh (but he’s usually backed up with work which is a good thing for him) or just go the new blade route.  You nailed the issue as you can see from my pics.  I was taught to try and use the whole stone surface which helps to wear them more evenly so the top of the stne was slipping below onto the bevel.

    My solution (a little late now) was to use a plastic spacer like the extra ones of different lengths that come with a bracket to hang your tv on the wall with.  I always use a rubber grommet on the rods, so the paddles don’t bottom out onto the ball joint.   But you might think about including two spacers (or charge extra) when someone buys an LAA and a disclaimer that suggests to use a spacer on your rods when sharpening smaller blades so the padde top does not fall onto the bevel.  With kitchen knives, since they are usually a higher blade this has never been an issue over the year that I’ve owned the system.  Most of the time when I do a small parer I’ve been using the Tormec adapter.

    Luckily for me, this was not one of my Damascus blades as those are over $300 to replace.   I have well over 100 edges done on my WE Pro unit and I’m really disappointed that this happened to a $475 CRK that I’ve added to my collection only two days ago!   Hopefully, others will find this thread before they ruin a blade using an LAA without using a spacer or a rubber band when doing a small folder.

     

     

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    #50040

    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 121
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    Thanks for the pictures @expidia and for the suggestion of the bushings /w the LAA. Do reach out to Josh in case he can help more quickly. It might also be worth trying to buff them out yourself. Worst case, it won’t work or will make it look worse, but you were already prepared to replace the blade anyway, so it couldn’t hurt to try.

    -Clay

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    #50053

    Kevin
    Participant
    • Topics: 2
    • Replies: 7

    Thanks for the insight as I had this occur on my test knife when I first started and couldn’t figure out what the hell I did…I use wine corks cut in various sizes, (thickness) to serve as a standoff.

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    #50057

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1917

    If it is a knife you really want to protect from any accidents, I’d recommend covering the knife steel sides with some kind of tape.  Blue painters tape works fairly well.  Nothing replaces proper careful sharpening technique and experience.  I do employ stone stops, both upper and lower, to limit the stones travel to across the knife edge, only.  I remove the upper stops when using edge trailing strokes, that is up and off strokes, such as when stropping or using Diamond Lapping Films, (DLFs).

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #50065

    Expidia
    Participant
    • Topics: 39
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    Well, I threw in the towel and sent my blade off to CRK for a new one this AM.  I tried the Dremel and their polishing attachment with the compound and its 80% better than it was , but still a castastrophic mess as many scratches were just too deep.  It will take 4-6 weeks to get the knife back and along with the old blade then I think I will send it to Josh for him to try and save it as Clay suggested.  If it comes out good then I can resell it and try to recover some of my loss for someone who broke the tip off of their knife, but doesn’t want to pay the +$150 buy a new blade again.

    Now that I’m jotting this out I should have removed the blade before sending to CRK and then the blade could have gone off to Josh.

    Thanks for all your responses . . . hard lesson learned here.  Rubber bands or the plastic spacers would have been a lot cheaper!

    Some might say as soon as I saw the scratches, I should have stopped around the 400 grit.  But I had not used my loop until I took out the 400’s. Doesn’t matter, Even if there was only “one” scratch, I would have had to have the blade replaced anyway for a knife to stay in my collection.

    Pics below are the best I could get it:

     

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    #50068

    NorCalQ
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    • Topics: 32
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    Ok…I may be stating the obvious here, but if you’re new to WE, like me, I was advised to start with some practice blades.  I went to a thrift store and picked up some really cheap kitchen knives of different sizes and practiced on those.  It was a big help and taught me some basics.  Also, it helped with the break-in of the stones.

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    #50085

    Expidia
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    • Topics: 39
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    Nope not new.  Probably 100-150 WE edges or re- freshened edges under my belt on the WE.

    This thread should serve as a warning to all that if you get complacent like I did you could ruin expensive knives very easily by the stones falling below the edge and scratching the sides.  Do yourselves a favor and pick up two plastic spacers at HD, Lowes or you local hardware store.  Like I said they should come with the low angle adapter accessory, in my opinion.

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    #50294

    Expidia
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    • Topics: 39
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    Another tip I found when using the spacers with the LAA is how to remember to use them!  Sure enough when I was taking the serrations off my long thin bread knife I put a few light scratches near the tip and realized I forgot to put the spacers on the rods.  Luckily they are light and will buff out with my Dremel and its polishing attachment.

    But my tip is to keep the spacers, allen wrenches and the LAA all in a small zip lock . . .  so you can remember to put the spacers on the rods before using the LAA.

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