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New to forum – Keep getting asymmetric grinds

Recent Forums Main Forum Welcome Mat New to forum – Keep getting asymmetric grinds

This topic contains 8 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  sksharp 02/01/2018 at 6:36 am.

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  • #44845

    Josiah
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 0
    • Hey guys, new to the wicked edge system and the forum. I’ve owned the wicked edge WE120 pro-pack 2 for about a month and sharpened about 10 or so knives on it so far. My main issue is I keep getting asymmetric grinds at least on the tip of the knife (I can’t tell if the belly of the blade is asymmetric). I’m using the angle cube to get even degrees on each side so I’m not sure what’s going on. Not sure if you can see it in the picture but with the blade in the clamp and handle towards me, the left side of the blade always seems to have a wider bevel.
    • Thanks for any information or help you guys can give me.
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    #44847

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 17
    • Replies: 839

    Welcome to the forum Josiah!

    If I were to guess, I would say that you’re right handed. Why do I say that? It is because I think your issue is the result of spending too much time working on the right side of the blade. Here’s a link to a recent thread where someone else was having a very similar issue. Hopefully you’ll find that the replies are relevant to your question.

    Edit: I should mention that uneven bevels are sometimes desirable and are intentionally applied to knives. Check out this thread if you want to read more.

    3 users thanked author for this post.
    #44854

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1795

     

    Hello Josiah, Welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum.  The Pro Pack 2 has a Wedge Screw Type Clamping Design.  Inherent in the design is the left clamp or vice side is fixed and the right side of the vice clamp moves as the screws are tightened.  When the bottom screw is tightened to lock the knife in the jaw tips it spreads the vice apart and causes the knife to tilt or lean left.  If you aren’t correcting for this lean you will get uneven or asymmetrical bevels caused by the vice design.  This sounds like it’s the cause of your issue from your description of the left bevel being taller.

    Here are links to previous post that address this issue. This first link has two different links in it.   I hope that they will provide you the insight and solution to correct for the blade lean to overcome your issue. You right where most new users notice this issue.  Generally after a few weeks when you’ve gained enough experience to really start to see what’s going on and you know how to use your Wicked Edge.  Then you’re able to really assess the quality of your work.  Once you’re there the conscientious users realizes the blade leans and start to ask these questions.  I’m sure this will provide you with the help you need.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #44875

    sksharp
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 397

    The tip is where an uneven bevel will reveal itself. Make sure that the rest of your bevel reflects what you are seeing at the tip however. Looking at the tip of your knife the bevel on the left side (clamped) should be noticeably wider than the right. I’ve had tips early on though that were due to the way I was finishing my stroke, different on one side than the other.

    Another thing with the 120 style clamp, be sure you clamp it the same way every time. You can clamp a knife, especially flat ground, and the knife can actually move back and forth because it’s clamped very narrowly right at the spine. By making sure that there is a slightly wider space at the bottom of the clamp and slightly narrower at the top of the clamp after it’s tightened completely will help set the knife in the clamp more consistently. I’m very careful to pay attention that the knife is clamped as straight and solidly as possible when using that style clamp.

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    #44929

    LV
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 13

    I don’t think I was mentioned but prior to sharpening did you notice if the knife itself already had an asymmetric grind?

    Some knives I have sharpened in the past had an uneven grind right from the factory

     

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    #44932

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
    • Replies: 1809

    Almost every knife comes from the factory with uneven bevels.  It’s just something that happens when a human is doing the sharpening on a belt sander.

    A bevel’s width is a function of the angle and the thickness of the steel, so another contributing factor can be the thickness of the blade at the tip.  Knives are ground so as to keep the width of the bevel shoulders quite small.  Unfortunately, they can’t/won’t put the same taper at the tip, as this would weaken the steel significantly at a point that might see rather high forces applied.  Another way to look at it is that the bevel at the tip is very close to the spine.

    I have deliberately sharpened some chefs’ knives with uneven bevels.  Putting the narrow bevel on the side of the user’s cutting hand will aid in cutting very thin slices of solid materials, like salami or radishes.  The edge will be pushed toward the narrow side, allowing for more accurate slicing.  This principle is seen among certain Japanese knives, where they use a chisel grind.  For knives with thicker bevel shoulders, the difference can be profound.  Bottom line?  Uneven bevels can be a good thing.  Just get the handing right.

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    #44939

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 58
    • Replies: 1795

    LV,  I prefer the use of the term “uneven grind” to indicate a grind that is different on the right and left side unintentionally.  That is either due to poor quality control in manufacturing or poor attention to detail by the knife grinder.  Most knives I buy, even very good expensive knives, have some differences in their bevels.  Especially hand made, hand sharpened knives.

    The term asymmetrical grinds, does describe an uneven ground bevel, in the broad sense.  I prefer to reserve the term asymmetrical grinds to use to describe a knife, like Tom did above, that is ground differently, side to side, intentionally, to enhance it’s cutting ability and steer the cutting edge better.

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #44962

    LV
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 13

    Uneven and asymmetrical are one in the same especially when followed with the same wording hence uneven grind or asymmetrical grind are in fact the same.

    I think an asymmetricaly sharpened edge would be more appropriate

    All I was trying to do was point out to the OP  was fact that most not all factory sharpened edge has an uneven grind or asymmetrical grind right from the start and that maybe it was something that was already there from the beginning

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    #44965

    sksharp
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 397

    It’s just how it’s worded and applied to the specific arena of sharpening but asymmetric means to me that the knife was intentionally sharpened with different bevel angles or the center is moved off center with the same angle by working one side more than the other, like a 70/30 or 90/10 sharpened knife. When you say uneven grind that means to me that the asymmetric bevels were unintentional and a product of sharpening without angle controls. The more we use the same terminology the easier to understand exactly what each of us is trying to convey. The few asymmetric grinds that I’ve done have pretty even angles the length of the blade all though different on either side. Uneven grinds have difference in angle along the length of the blade on the same side. To me uneven means unintentional and asymmetrical means intentional as it pertains to knife sharpening at least.

    It’s absolutely true in my world as well that most knives are not sharpened with a set angle and all but a few that I’ve done have had to be profiled for the WE right off the bat. Some more than others of course, but I usually find a pretty good difference in angles from heel to tip on the same side of the knifes done by hand or by belt sanding.

    It’s all good my friends!

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