Mounting a knife

[Roikyou]

So I’ve had the WE for two weeks with no success at all, plenty of uneven grinds and paint sharpened off the jaws. Coming from the KME and only using the KME for three months. I’ve found that the three knives I tried with the WE, it cants to the left, so one bevel is larger than the other. No, I keep 10 minutes per side max and make sure I do the same amount on the other side. I’ve found that the WE does not like Kershaw Leek or Benchmade mini grip. Leak I don’t care about but not being able to sharpen the grip is an issues. You can’t sharpen the grip at 22 degrees without hitting the front jaws. I’ve tried the low angle adapter and between the can’t and repeatability, sorry, not impressed. I was really hoping this would work but I just don’t see it happening. I’ve put about 12 hours and several knives with no luck getting one to work properly. The KME, I took it out and had an edge on the hinderer within 24 hours. So I had high expectations for this system but I’m ready to send it back. Honestly don’t see additional gadgets and add on’s to make it work an option. I’ve got a couple hours I can put in it tomorrow but I honestly thinking about using that time in the KME. Is it just known that with the clamp system it’s going to cant to one side and small knives are a no go?

[Marc H]

Welcome to the Wicked Edge Forum, Roikyou.  I’m sorry you’re having troubles with your system.  We’re here to try to help you.  Please start with telling us which particular system you’re using.  From the issue of blade canting left it sounds like the WE 100 or WE 120.  This is a known characteristic of that style screw wedge clamping vice.  The clamp left side is fixed.  As it’s tightened the right side leans because it is floating.  Please post back to confirm your model and we’ll try to help you through the learning curve.  There are a lot of previous posts on how to work around the knife lean.  I’ll see if I can locate some to share with you.

Here’s a link to a post I made that links to some others that may also help you deal with the clamping issues.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Roikyou]

WE 130, I’ve seen searching through previous posts with no resolve. I’ve found when I screw up the knife with the WE, I put it back on the KME it fix it is the only resolve I’ve had so far. Kind of lost really. The fact that I can’t sharpen a mini griptillian at 22 degrees without hitting the jaw on the top posts is kind of disheartening.

[Marc H]

The WE130 has the self centering floating cam vice.  I’m trying to understand your terminology, “screw up the Knife”??  Are you sure WE130? This vice should not cause a blade cant if the knife is clamped properly.  Pocket knives are not where my experience is centered so I’ll share with you what I can till others with better experience chime in.

I looked up the knives you referenced to get an idea of their shape to see why you’re have this issue.  You probably have to clamp them higher in the jaws, not resting down on the depth key.  They both have a narrow flat area just at the spine.  I like to use a piece of real leather chamois between the knife and the clamp.  Just a very small patch.  Enough for the clamp to tightly compress it.  For me this method holds the blade very securely.

Are you setting the bevel angle you’re trying to sharpen at with an angle cube, or using the scale on the WE base?  The base is not a true indication, just a guide.  You need to use a digital angle cube to get a true angle.

I see SkSharp on line.  Hopefully he’ll step in.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Roikyou]

Using the angle cube. I can visually see it cants to one side and it’s definitely, brand new, the 130. On the left side, the micro adjustment screw threads are showing and on the right side, the micro adjustments screws are counter sunk. So, When the angle cube tells me both side are 22 degrees, the right side bevel is larger than the left.

I agree, one mistake I was making was sinking small knives down to the depth pin, the “teeth” I want to call on the vice are at the edge of each side of the vice, not all the way across. So, you need your small knives towards the top and make sure the “teeth” are clamping the flat portion of the blade. So, I think I’ve got that take care of.

But really bothers me now is uneven bevel and the micro adjustment out of wack. Don’t get why.

[sksharp]

If you are hitting the low angle adapter at 22 degs. then you have the knife clamped to far toward the tip and/or to low in the low angle adapter. I have to ask how you are measuring your angles though. More details of exactly what your method of clamping a knife is would help us help you.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Marc H

[Marc H]

It’s only the angle cube that counts.  Rarely will the micro-adjustments match in exposed threads from side to side.  If you run out of adjustment on one side, start over with the threads exposed 1/3 to 1/2 the length out, move the gross adjustment lever one click greater or one click less then where it is and try to micro-adjust again.  Through experience you’ll learn to balance the thread length exposed with the gross angle set position.

I try to get my angle right with around 1/2″ of threads still exposed on  at least the closest micro adjustment. The other side may be 3/4″ or maybe more.  If it’s too much threads out then back them in and move the gross angle one click further out and try again.  Sometimes you may be so close that when you change grit stones you may even have to move the click adjustment and readjust the micros.  I do what ever it takes to get the angle cube right.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Dwight Glass]

I use the clamp made by Tormek “SVM-00” to hold small knives above the vice and it holds the knife by the handle so nothing is in the way of the blade when i am sharpening. I also check the angel of each stone with an angle cube or some kind of level because one side of my vice is stationary and the other side moves when I clamp the knife. So the angle bar below the vice can only get the angle close.

[Roikyou]

I did see from a previous post from MarcH “For me the micro-adjustment screws rarely are in the same position when set to an equal angle, and verified with an angle cube”

Thanks to all, a few questions…

As far as hitting the jaws, I’ll check how far back I have the blade. It seems like with small knives, there is very little wiggle room.

I think I was concentrating way too much on making sure these small knives touch the depth key. Looking at the vise again, the knife was too low and too far back, so very little blade towards the front where the stones were hitting the front jaw.

I think this would work better:

[Marc H]

To move on, first if you can visually see the knife is leaning, it’s not clamped centered.

For the uneven bevels, work a little to one side then switch to the other side. Keep going back and forth, a little at a time.  As you gain experience you’ll get a handle on how much you can do to one side before you need to switch.  Try to keep your efforts more even.  For this a visual aid like a lighted loupe or a USB Digital Microscope is necessary.  There’s nothing quit as helpful as seeing what your doing up close.

Your stones are new, not yet broken in.  They’re very coarse and don’t work as well as they will when they break in.  Your results won’t be as good as you hope for now.  It’ll get better as you gain experience.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Roikyou]

the above picture to me was better than the way I was clamping it, here’s how far off I was before:

[Marc H]

Roikyou that looks pretty good.  I experienced the same troubles as you are, when I first began.  It’s not easy to learn how to use this.  There’s quite a learning curve.  Everyone of us is trying to do the same thing with a different size, shape and style knife.  So even if the technique, in general, applies to every knife, the differences in the knife can make a big difference in your personal experience.

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Roikyou]

I moved it back to avoid the hole and the teeth on the back of the knife have very little real estate to grab a hold of. So I think the first picture, not the second should work. I’ve yet to test it.

[Marc H]

Using something between the knife and jaws, like chamois, helps it get better purchase when holding just a small piece of steel.

 

Marc
(MarcH's Rack-Its)

[Roikyou]

Marc H wrote:

Roikyou that looks pretty good. I experienced the same troubles as you are, when I first began. It’s not easy to learn how to use this. There’s quite a learning curve. Everyone of us is trying to do the same thing with a different size, shape and style knife. So even if the technique, in general, applies to every knife, the differences in the knife can make a big difference in your personal experience.

I hope your saying the first picture looks good not the second one, where you can see the front of the knife is way too low and makes sense that I was sharpening the jaw, not the blade.

Basically, I need to throw the book out the window. Don’t seat the knife on the pins, I need to make sure the four teeth in the jaw clamp onto the knife.

[Author]

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