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Issue with my Sandoku

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Richard 04/10/2019 at 8:23 am.

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  • #50101

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 19

    Looking at something this morning, I began putting a thinner edge on my Sandoku dropping the WE down to 10 degrees as recommended by Henckels themselves.  The main thing I notice is that I’m not able to draw a real noticeable burr even using a 100-grit stone, get above 200 and forget it.  I certainly understand why that could happen but was wondering if that’s normal.  Thanks!

    #50104

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 104

    So you are changing the angle from what down to 10?   A few degrees is going to take some work to get the bevel apexed  and a bur raised..   Coat the blade with a red marker on both sides and take some passes with the stone.. should be NO red left on the bevel  if you are fully apexed. Use a loop or usb microscope to verify the full length on both sides heel to tip.  Also make sure your stone is not hitting the vise at that low angle.. I don’t have the 130 so not sure if that can happen but it can on the 120. 🙂

    Hope that help!

     

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    #50105

    MarcH
    Moderator
    • Topics: 56
    • Replies: 1725

    Richard, a 10º per side, bevel angel is very, very thin, even for the finest most expensive knives, forged from the finest, best steels. In my experience it is used very seldom.  The bevel recommendations made by many manufacturers don’t correspond with the real, actual bevel angle the knives were ground with, at the factory.  As airscapes says, even if your able to contact the knife and not just the vise.

    The way to verify the actual bevel angles would have been, before you began profiling the edge, to 10º, to mark the bevel with a sharpie marker and then to adjust your sharpening angle guide rods beginning with the 10º setting, what they claim the bevel is, then working out incrementally wider with guide rod angle adjustments, (reapplying the marker as needed), till you observe you are removing the marker only from the actual bevels.  At this juncture you would take an actual angle reading with a properly zeroed, digital angle cube.

    For your situation, based on my experience, you are sharpening far below the edge and removing steel maybe below the bevel shoulder.  Again, this can easily be verified by applying the sharpie marker to the knife’s bevel, and down the edge on the knife’s side, so you can see where your stone work at 10º is actually removing the marker and the steel.

    If my opinion is correct, based on your description of your inability to draw a burr, you are removing steel far lower then the knife edge to be effective.  In order to ever draw a burr you will need to remove all the steel from where you’re working up, while creating a new bevel up the knife’s side, on up to the apex.  This will indeed create a very tall bevel and waste a lot of good unused and undamaged steel, and shorten the knife’s life.

    The reason the 100 grit stones seem ineffective is because you are attempting to grind away a large wide or rather tall patch of new steel between where you’re stones contact the knife at the 10º setting and any steel it will contacts above that point as you continue working at it.  As you continue to remove steel and delve deeper into the knife that contact patch will continue to widen, get taller, and deeper as you remove more steel, until finally, at some point, you’ll reach the apex of the knife edge when enough steel has been ground away with your sharpening efforts.

    You may be able to go back to the beginning an attempt to match the actual bevel.  Once you determine that setting, you can sharpen the knife correspondingly.  What’s done is done.  It may not effect the knife other then it’s appearance.

     

    Marc
    (MarcH's Rack-It)

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    #50106

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 806

    10 degrees per side is a very acute angle even in the world of high end kitchen cutlery. Are you sure you are getting a burr? The angle at which the knife is sharpened shouldn’t affect whether or not you can develop a burr.

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    #50108

    airscapes
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 104

    So that there video opens up a can of newbie worms..  Thought edge trailing strokes were just for DLF and Stropping..   I supposes this topic is sort of like the old  Ford or Chevy..

    #50109

    Organic
    Participant
    • Topics: 16
    • Replies: 806

    Clay almost always uses edge trailing strokes in the videos that he produces because edge trailing strokes are generally easier to execute in a safe manner. Both edge trailing and edge leading strokes will get a knife sharp, but edge leading strokes have been shown to yield a cleaner apex. See this thread for details.

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    #50117

    tcmeyer
    Participant
    • Topics: 33
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    At very low angles, I would expect edge-trailing breakouts would be significantly wore.

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    #50119

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 19

    It was 15 when I bought the knife 20 years ago, quite different from the knives they build today, the stock is much thicker so it took some work to scrub it down to 10.  The marker test works great and I’m getting a consistent 10 degrees from one end to the other no problem.

    #50120

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 19

    The knife is old and I’m using it to practice on, it’s 7″ long and about 1.75″ high so by using the LAA, I don’t come close to hitting the vise.  I guess I received some bad info from the Henckels customer support, they told me 10 degrees for the Sudoku and 15″ for pretty much all the rest of their knives.

    #50121

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 19

    10 degrees per side is a very acute angle even in the world of high end kitchen cutlery. Are you sure you are getting a burr? The angle at which the knife is sharpened shouldn’t affect whether or not you can develop a burr.

    <iframe src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/HNWYEJ-ksdo?start=136&feature=oembed” name=”fitvid0″ width=”300″ height=”150″ frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=”allowfullscreen” data-mce-fragment=”1″></iframe>

    I am up to a certain grit, it’s really hard to detect when I finish at 200.

    #50122

    Richard
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 19

    At very low angles, I would expect edge-trailing breakouts would be significantly wore.

    That’s what I was thinking as well.

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