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How to obtain a mirror edge?

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Viewing 9 posts - 16 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #1390
    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    Carbide popout is a finicky thing… even with all diamonds.

    You run into several issues as you add more refinement to abrasion resistant steels. The first is that There is a point of diminishing returns with the more abrasion resistant steel – the higher you go in grit, the slower it abrades. Of course diamonds still cut, but they will progressively slow down at each grit level.

    More importantly, the diamonds abrade through the carbides once the abrasive becomes smaller than the size of the actual carbides – I don’t know for sure what that size is, but I am guessing somewhere between the 4K and 8K range (2-4 microns) based on my observations (which is by no means extensive in the super steel area) – In theory, this can cause carbide fracturing, where the comb-like gaps in the carbide itself become too unsupported and snap off like a pencil point, leaving you with a “whole” thickness of carbide again that is still secured to the steel. This theory seemed to be proven with my recent attempt to sharpen an s90v Spyderco military knife to shave ready. I’d get it to a certain point, where it was screaming sharp, and then the edge would disappear on me.

    With the surrounding steel being rather “soft”, I found that while it was difficult to abrade through the carbides, the steel itself was still rather flexible, and I could feel the edge had rolled somewhat after stropping (since I was going for a shave, I used lower angles and the edge of the edge became very thin).

    The solution was to add angles to the steel as I went higher in refinement. This accounted for all the issues presented here. The higher angle allowed the carbides to be abraded through with finer grits, but left enough structural stability in the serrated carbide to not fracture. It also solved the issue of rolling the edge that was too thin for stropping. I ended up at about 35 degrees per side for my shave on the s90v.

    ZDP-189 may react differently, but I think they will follow the same route.

    B)

    #1392
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    See what I told you Doug! The guy is a veritable encyclopedia on sharpening!

    He definitely is!

    I hope this helps!

    It surely does! Thanks a lot, Tom. Just out of curiosity: which magnification factor do you use you microscope on to produce the photographs?

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #1393
    Mark76
    Participant
    • Topics: 179
    • Replies: 2760

    Just out of curiosity: which magnification factor do you use you microscope on to produce the photographs?

    Ah, 400x I just read. :cheer: Thanks, Tom. 😆

    Molecule Polishing: my blog about sharpening with the Wicked Edge

    #1396
    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    Anytime! B)

    The actual size is 1mm wide by .75mm high in those pictures.

    #2212
    Robert Borowski
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 23

    I currently own the diamonds stones up to 1000 and I am looking for an upgrade. Without saying I am looking for the best finish possible.

    Just wondering if there are any thoughts on this progression:

    Use the WEPS with the diamonds stones up to the 1000 then jump up to the 2000,3000 Chosera stone and then up to the 5000 10000 chosera stones.

    How much of a benefit would there be with the 5000 10000 grit, Considering they are almost 200 bones. Also if it doesn’t seem like a good progression I would appreciate a suggestion

    My favorite knifes have ZDP189, S30v, and M390 steels (no particular order).

    Thanks for the thoughts!

    #2213
    Jende Industries
    Participant
    • Topics: 14
    • Replies: 342

    Hi Robert! Welcome to the WEPS forum! B)

    You say you’re looking for the best finish possible – can you clarify a little more? Do you want an aesthetic super polished finish, a long lasting functional finish, or sharpener than anyone in all eleven dimensions of time and space?

    Super polished include the WEPS pastes and the Choseras up to 10K. A long lasting functional edge will be the finish off the ceramic 1200 and 1600 paddles, the Chosera 2K and 3K, and the Shapton 1500 and 2K stones. Super sharp will require the Shapton 15K and 30K followed by the Hand American and Ken Schwartz compounds.

    For your knives, I would be more likely to do a series of Diamond and/or CBN on balsa after the 1K WEPS diamonds. You can clean things up nicely off the 1K Diamonds first by going to the Ceramic WEPS, the Chosera 1K or the Shapton 1500.

    #2214
    Doug Williams
    Participant
    • Topics: 3
    • Replies: 43

    Of course there are a thousand ways to get a good edge. So follow this method:
    You decide to go with the 1000 diamonds, followed by the 1600/1200 ceramics.
    Next, you want to go to strops with 1 and .5 Micron Diamond Paste.

    Given the above, would you go with leather or balsa strops?

    #2215
    Robert Borowski
    Participant
    • Topics: 7
    • Replies: 23

    Thanks glad to join, This could be a new obsession!
    Well I guess I would be looking for all three for different knife right and at different levels of my personal skill?;). A mixed you know Some that are functionally stronger and some that super polished. This would also justify a ever growing collection of knives:P haha

    If I had to answer that question my ideal edge would be something that very polished, functionally very sharp and strong enough to use on a regular basis. The knifes mentioned above would be included in the “user” part of my collection. So at this point I am interested in in having the sharpest blade in all seven dimensions but I think it will probably be a skill mastered in the next upgrade in the progression. I like leather but then again I don’t have that much experience in balsa stropping. I would probably enjoy the switch.

    How strong would the edge be if I used the diamond paddles up to 1000 then the 1200,1600 ceramics and used then the 1 and .5 maybe the .25 diamond spray? I am thinking they would be pretty well polished and still screaming sharp but not unworldly sharp. Is that safe to assume?

    #2216
    wickededge
    Keymaster
    • Topics: 122
    • Replies: 2934

    One viable option for a fantastic edge that suits all your purposes would be to create an super polished bevel and then add in a tiny, somewhat toothier micro-bevel. In that way, you get the aesthetics, performance and durability. The exact amount of toothiness could be dictated by your cutting needs for that particular knife e.g. slice cutting=more teeth, push cutting=less teeth. You could also use the strops to build a nice convex, super polished edge and then use a waterstone to add in the micro bevel so you get a perfect set of micro-serrations, exactly the way you want them while having the durability of the convex architecture.

    -Clay

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